Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1574973 times)

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1470 on: February 05, 2017, 12:16:20 PM »
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I am satisfied that the chute Hayden provided to WSHM was the chute found on the plane. the photo below is from page 52 of the FBI documents, and a picture of the packing card....

The parachute described by Shutter above is an NB-6 even if it doesn't use that name on the packing card or anywhere else. 
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1471 on: February 06, 2017, 01:02:09 PM »
Technically there is no such thing as an NB6 canopy (as far as I know). NB (Navy Back) refers to the harness-container assembly. NB 6 rigs in USN service normally had 26 ft diameter Ripstop conical canopies installed. It's not an especially important point. Most old school jumpers and riggers would know what you meant if you said NB6 canopy. Some surplus NB6 rigs were modified, adding extra fabric to extend the container flap dimension, so that a larger (eg C-9 28 ft canopy) could be accommodated in an otherwise too tight NB6 container.

377

Bruce wrote on DZ:

 Parachute Update: FBI’s Carr planted seeds of confusion concerning the back parachutes; and confirmed actions by Cossey deemed questionable [In reply to]   
Former Cooper case agent Larry Carr seems to have planted some of the seeds of confusion that now surrounds the multiple issues enveloping the “back parachutes” investigation, or at least has added weight to possible myths once-deemed truthful and common knowledge.

He also posted commentary on the DZ that cast some of Mr. Cossey’s actions in a questionable light, namely, why did Coss modify a pilot’s emergency rig to make it tougher to deploy?

To begin, Carr posted some of the misleading back parachute information on the DZ in early June, 2008.

First he refers to Earl Cossey as providing the parachutes and having them at his home on November 24, 1971, indicating possession. This leads to the question of whether Carr had read the documents that Gray has now brought to light.

“The NB6 and the Pioneer were Cossey's chutes, he had them at his house; they weren't at Seattle Skysports.”

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The second issue is the “stuffing” of a 28-foot canopy into a NB 6 container. Apparently, I was not alone in thinking that Mr. Cossey had done just that, and perhaps my confusion on this matter stems from what Mr. Carr said on the DZ, even though these posts predate my arrival in Cooper World by several months:

“I asked Cossey why he packed a 28-foot canopy in the NB6 and he just shrugged. Kind of like, ‘it was my chute, I did it because I can.’ I like that guy, I could have talked to him all day but he grew tired of me in about an hour. "

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Carr also confirms some of the modifications that Cossey says he performed on the rig that Cooper used, which are inexplicable and unexplained; namely, Cossey seems to have modified a pilot’s emergency rig and made it tougher to deploy.

Besides the super-stuffed bag, Carr seems to confirm that Cossey also moved the rip chord from its customary position on the left and placed it on the right. In addition to the new location - which might confuse a jumper in an emergency - the modification required Cooper to use an unusual two-stage maneuver to deploy the parachute – first pulling the rip chord out and then thrusting the rip chord upwards.

Carr posted (June 13, 2008):

"Back to the NB6, Cossey modified the chute, we know that from the 28' canopy. And when we spoke he said he placed the handle under the right armpit. The motion he showed me was that Cooper would have had to hook his right thumb in the handle and push straight out, like a bench press motion. Once fully extended, he would have had to rotate his fully extended arm up over his head. Does this make sense? Or did he just demonstrate right handed and he really meant left? "

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377 also posted on the DZ a few moments after Carr, and his analysis of Cossey’s alleged modifications are quite simple:

“28 ft canopy in an non extended NB6 container, VERY weird ripcord handle location modification…was Cossey planning to have an ex-wife jump with this?”

On a personal note, I would like to thank 377 and Snow for helping me climb (crawl) back into the saddle today after my journalistic melt-down of the past 36 hours. Particularly Snow, who helped with all the clicky stuff, and capturing the pertinent flakes of Carr-quotes from the blizzard of DZ commentary.

And thanks to Georger for providing a few words of motivation for me to re-visit DZ World, June 2008, circa pages 90-120.

It's a Force 10 Storm out there, folks.

BTW: Bruce Thun confessed to me when we were making travel arrangements that he falls asleep at night thinking about the Cooper case. That makes me smile, We should have a good time driving up the West Valley Highway tomorrow to see Norman.


(This post was edited by BruceSmith on Oct 24, 2011, 1:14 AM)
 
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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1472 on: February 06, 2017, 01:28:14 PM »
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Technically there is no such thing as an NB6 canopy (as far as I know). NB (Navy Back) refers to the harness-container assembly. NB 6 rigs in USN service normally had 26 ft diameter Ripstop conical canopies installed. It's not an especially important point. Most old school jumpers and riggers would know what you meant if you said NB6 canopy. Some surplus NB6 rigs were modified, adding extra fabric to extend the container flap dimension, so that a larger (eg C-9 28 ft canopy) could be accommodated in an otherwise too tight NB6 container.

377

Agreed.  If Hayden owned both back pack parachutes that were given to Cooper, and which were reportedly assembled by Cossey for Hayden, does anyone know if Hayden was right handed or left handed?  Maybe Bruce has that information.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1473 on: February 06, 2017, 03:01:16 PM »
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Technically there is no such thing as an NB6 canopy (as far as I know). NB (Navy Back) refers to the harness-container assembly. NB 6 rigs in USN service normally had 26 ft diameter Ripstop conical canopies installed. It's not an especially important point. Most old school jumpers and riggers would know what you meant if you said NB6 canopy. Some surplus NB6 rigs were modified, adding extra fabric to extend the container flap dimension, so that a larger (eg C-9 28 ft canopy) could be accommodated in an otherwise too tight NB6 container.

377

Agreed.  If Hayden owned both back pack parachutes that were given to Cooper, and which were reportedly assembled by Cossey for Hayden, does anyone know if Hayden was right handed or left handed?  Maybe Bruce has that information.

Once again this is basic info that should have been gathered at the outset -

If Cossey built a chute for the owner the handedness of the owner comes into play? Maybe? Did Hayden request Cossey move the pull chord to one side vs another? Always lots of details to cover - 
 
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1474 on: February 07, 2017, 10:58:28 AM »
I have been researching the Titanium particles and came across Picatinny Arsenal in NJ, they did research and development with titanium for munitions and helicopter parts in the mid-late 60's..  has this been looked at?
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1475 on: February 07, 2017, 11:13:08 AM »
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I have been researching the Titanium particles and came across Picatinny Arsenal in NJ, they did research and development with titanium for munitions and helicopter parts in the mid-late 60's..  has this been looked at?

What helicopter parts were involved in this R&D?
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1476 on: February 07, 2017, 11:19:46 AM »
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I have been researching the Titanium particles and came across Picatinny Arsenal in NJ, they did research and development with titanium for munitions and helicopter parts in the mid-late 60's..  has this been looked at?

What helicopter parts were involved in this R&D?

Laminated panel failures,,,

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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1477 on: February 07, 2017, 12:41:44 PM »
this is strange,,

Looking up Picatinny Arsenal machinery, I stumbled across Yancey Machine Tool Co in Portland started in 1958 they bought and sold used military and industrial machinery including lathes from Picatinny, could the tie particles be lifted from used equipment.. the owner was 46 in 1971.


The shop is next to the Willamette River about 18 mile float to TBAR.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 01:35:51 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline dice

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1478 on: February 07, 2017, 04:48:54 PM »
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this is strange,,

Looking up Picatinny Arsenal machinery, I stumbled across Yancey Machine Tool Co in Portland started in 1958 they bought and sold used military and industrial machinery including lathes from Picatinny, could the tie particles be lifted from used equipment.. the owner was 46 in 1971.


The shop is next to the Willamette River about 18 mile float to TBAR.

this is very interesting.
Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1479 on: February 20, 2017, 09:49:08 PM »
727 take off with aft stairs down,  1975



 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1480 on: February 25, 2017, 09:33:25 PM »
I was talking with a buddy I grew up with today, and old Cooper popped up. I showed him Tom Kaye's website of elements. he said to look into the medical field for several reasons, most of the elements including the one that stuck out the most which is Barium Chloride -radioactive influences phosphors...

He believes Cooper was some sort of technician vs working in a manufacturing field..he's been in the electronics field almost all his life. I met him on the CB radio back in the early 80's. he lived just a quarter mile away from me..

He took a CB radio (president Washington) one of the best radio's and put over a hundred extra channels on it, including going in to 10 meters. this radio was one of the first to have a PLL circuit (Phase Lock Loop) that could be jumped with wires....I learned a lot about electronics through him, still do to this day...
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 09:44:48 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1481 on: February 25, 2017, 09:56:00 PM »
With 100,000 different particles, it looks like there's no end to where Cooper's tie could've been. Instead of limiting him to a time and place, it feels like it has freed him to be everything from a garbageman to an astronaut.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1482 on: February 25, 2017, 10:20:04 PM »
Just passing the information...I'll go back to what I was doing before...
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1483 on: February 25, 2017, 10:27:02 PM »
I have this nightmare that, a few years from now, IBM's Watson will solve this case and I'll have to find something else to obsess about constantly.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1484 on: February 25, 2017, 11:45:48 PM »
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I have this nightmare that, a few years from now, IBM's Watson will solve this case and I'll have to find something else to obsess about constantly.

Even Watson would need some real data to calculate options with. Im willing to bet Watson wouldn't be be much further along than humans are - humans programed Watson.  :)) Hopefully the FBI could be better than Watson! ?

« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 11:47:01 PM by georger »