Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1831709 times)

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1455 on: February 04, 2017, 12:50:33 PM »
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I know virtually nothing about parachutes,

How would this parachute compare to the one the hijacker used..

There were some major differences both in the harness and the canopy.  The pilot climbing into the rear seat of a USAF T-33 appears to have on a standard USAF 28 foot back pack with a straight-across chest strap.  On the Navy NB-6 that Cooper used, the chest strap is an "X" arrangement and the leg straps are a bit different as well.  So when putting on the NB-6, you have to pay more attention to insure that you have all the straps straightened out and correctly fastened.

The USAF 28 foot parachute in the picture has only one Capewell release so that the canopy can be partially released and deflated to prevent the wearer being dragged through the brush after landing.  The NB-6 did not have Capewell releases.  The USAF parachute had links-separable at the top end of the risers for attaching the canopy to the risers.  The NB-6 had the canopy shroud lines sewn into the risers and did not use links-separable for canopy attachment.

The shroud lines of the USAF parachute ran from one riser over the top of the canopy to another riser.  The NB-6 shroud lines stopped at the skirt of the canopy and a cloth tape continued over the top of the canopy.  This resulted in the NB-6 26 foot conical canopy being much more compact when it was packed.  I owned such an NB-6 rig until about November 1, 1971 and used it as an emergency parachute when flying aircraft with cramped cockpits.

The rates of descent for these two parachute types is listed as being about the same.  In my early 1960s jumping experiences with two Capewell releases on the harness, I found that the early Capewell releases weren't worth a flip in the air when you had to release them to deploy your reserve and/or release a malfunctioning main canopy.

Wow, that is a lot of detail, would they be similar as far as functionality and operationally in jump (except for the plane canopy).

I have an image but don't want to post publicly..

.

Both parachutes come with a lot of different features depending on the environment in which they are used.  They may include bail out oxygen bottles, attachable seat packs containing survival and flotation equipment, etc..  In fact, I have a container for an NB-6 at the present time that has a very small pouch inside the container for a rudimentary survival kit.
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1456 on: February 04, 2017, 01:01:48 PM »
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I know virtually nothing about parachutes,

How would this parachute compare to the one the hijacker used..

There were some major differences both in the harness and the canopy.  The pilot climbing into the rear seat of a USAF T-33 appears to have on a standard USAF 28 foot back pack with a straight-across chest strap.  On the Navy NB-6 that Cooper used, the chest strap is an "X" arrangement and the leg straps are a bit different as well.  So when putting on the NB-6, you have to pay more attention to insure that you have all the straps straightened out and correctly fastened.

The USAF 28 foot parachute in the picture has only one Capewell release so that the canopy can be partially released and deflated to prevent the wearer being dragged through the brush after landing.  The NB-6 did not have Capewell releases.  The USAF parachute had links-separable at the top end of the risers for attaching the canopy to the risers.  The NB-6 had the canopy shroud lines sewn into the risers and did not use links-separable for canopy attachment.

The shroud lines of the USAF parachute ran from one riser over the top of the canopy to another riser.  The NB-6 shroud lines stopped at the skirt of the canopy and a cloth tape continued over the top of the canopy.  This resulted in the NB-6 26 foot conical canopy being much more compact when it was packed.  I owned such an NB-6 rig until about November 1, 1971 and used it as an emergency parachute when flying aircraft with cramped cockpits.

The rates of descent for these two parachute types is listed as being about the same.  In my early 1960s jumping experiences with two Capewell releases on the harness, I found that the early Capewell releases weren't worth a flip in the air when you had to release them to deploy your reserve and/or release a malfunctioning main canopy.

Wow, that is a lot of detail, would they be similar as far as functionality and operationally in jump (except for the plane canopy).

I have an image but don't want to post publicly..

.

Both parachutes come with a lot of different features depending on the environment in which they are used.  They may include bail out oxygen bottles, attachable seat packs containing survival and flotation equipment, etc..  In fact, I have a container for an NB-6 at the present time that has a very small pouch inside the container for a rudimentary survival kit.

So, if somebody had experience with a "seat" back chute like that one in the early 60's, they would be comfortable with the chute the hijacker used?
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georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1457 on: February 04, 2017, 02:45:48 PM »
No bomb switch:

A poster here has referred several times to the bomb "switch". There is no testimony by anyone about there being a bomb switch, in spite of several elaborate descriptions of the bomb by Mucklow and Schaffner.

If the poster knows something NEW saying there was a switch in Cooper's bomb, let him cite his source.

Flo says: "He showed me a wire INSIDE the case and he said ‘touching this wire would detonate the bomb.’

Hancock says: "he had his hand inside the brief case at all times when he and Mucklow were seated together in row 18... showing how the bomb worked'

Mucklow says: "there were eight cylindrical objects about six to eight inches long with four of the items being placed on top of the others and banded together with (black) tape. There was some covered and uncovered wiring running from the cylindrical objects to a dry cell type battery which had terminals on one end. She could not recall if the wires were connected to the terminals."

"The wire (he was holding and showed me) had a red plastic coating on it except for the last inch which was bare. He told (me) this was a wire he could touch to set off the bomb'.

No mention of a switch.

Cooper's bomb was a hand activated device he said could be detonated by 'touching a wire' (to a battery terminal?) and he showed both Flo and Tina a wire with stripped insulation at its end, he was holding "between his fingers". He claimed the bomb (circuitry) was fused (to prevent an overload) and was therefore sensitive to electrical currents and he warned that excessive radio use in the cockpit might set off the bomb!     

« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 03:11:54 PM by georger »
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1458 on: February 04, 2017, 03:15:37 PM »
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...On the Navy NB-6 that Cooper used...


Why do you say Cooper used an NB-6?
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1459 on: February 04, 2017, 04:45:17 PM »
The only poster who has said switch was Tom, who else are you talking about?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 07:02:45 PM by georger »
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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1460 on: February 04, 2017, 06:57:48 PM »
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I know virtually nothing about parachutes,

How would this parachute compare to the one the hijacker used..

There were some major differences both in the harness and the canopy.  The pilot climbing into the rear seat of a USAF T-33 appears to have on a standard USAF 28 foot back pack with a straight-across chest strap.  On the Navy NB-6 that Cooper used, the chest strap is an "X" arrangement and the leg straps are a bit different as well.  So when putting on the NB-6, you have to pay more attention to insure that you have all the straps straightened out and correctly fastened.

The USAF 28 foot parachute in the picture has only one Capewell release so that the canopy can be partially released and deflated to prevent the wearer being dragged through the brush after landing.  The NB-6 did not have Capewell releases.  The USAF parachute had links-separable at the top end of the risers for attaching the canopy to the risers.  The NB-6 had the canopy shroud lines sewn into the risers and did not use links-separable for canopy attachment.

The shroud lines of the USAF parachute ran from one riser over the top of the canopy to another riser.  The NB-6 shroud lines stopped at the skirt of the canopy and a cloth tape continued over the top of the canopy.  This resulted in the NB-6 26 foot conical canopy being much more compact when it was packed.  I owned such an NB-6 rig until about November 1, 1971 and used it as an emergency parachute when flying aircraft with cramped cockpits.

The rates of descent for these two parachute types is listed as being about the same.  In my early 1960s jumping experiences with two Capewell releases on the harness, I found that the early Capewell releases weren't worth a flip in the air when you had to release them to deploy your reserve and/or release a malfunctioning main canopy.

Wow, that is a lot of detail, would they be similar as far as functionality and operationally in jump (except for the plane canopy).

I have an image but don't want to post publicly..

.

Both parachutes come with a lot of different features depending on the environment in which they are used.  They may include bail out oxygen bottles, attachable seat packs containing survival and flotation equipment, etc..  In fact, I have a container for an NB-6 at the present time that has a very small pouch inside the container for a rudimentary survival kit.

So, if somebody had experience with a "seat" back chute like that one in the early 60's, they would be comfortable with the chute the hijacker used?

I was referring to back pack parachutes only above.  In military operational experience there will probably also be a "seat pack", which will contain survival equipment plus a life raft, that will be attached to the harness and the pilot will be sitting on it.  It will not be a seat pack parachute which is something entirely different.

Cooper was apparently familiar with a back pack parachute.  By the 1970s, the seat pack parachutes were beginning to be phased out to some extent, although some are still manufactured for such things as acrobatic aircraft, and Cooper may or may not have been familiar with them as well.
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georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1461 on: February 04, 2017, 07:03:42 PM »
Shutter asks:
The only poster who has said switch was Tom, who else are you talking about?

My reply:
Flyjack has. Maybe Fkyjack is citing Tom?  Where would Tom have got this? The fact is there was no switch in the bomb, so far as all testimony I have is concerned...

 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 07:05:21 PM by georger »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1462 on: February 04, 2017, 07:04:57 PM »
Wasn't aware he made that comment. I only heard recently with Tom on the podcast, and brought it up on comment several days ago...
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georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1463 on: February 04, 2017, 07:06:12 PM »
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Wasn't aware he made that comment. I only heard recently with Tom on the podcast, and brought it up on comment several days ago...

#Wasnt aware Tom had said this.

The only 'switch' Im aware of was the switch using his fingers on a wire. I guess we could call that 'manual leverage'!  :)) Like hurling a rock preceded the bow and arrow historically!  :))
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 07:10:50 PM by georger »
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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1464 on: February 04, 2017, 07:21:43 PM »
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...On the Navy NB-6 that Cooper used...


Why do you say Cooper used an NB-6?

Knowledgeable skydiving sources in the Portland/Vancouver area tell me that it was an NB-6. 
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1465 on: February 04, 2017, 08:06:25 PM »
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Shutter asks:
The only poster who has said switch was Tom, who else are you talking about?

My reply:
Flyjack has. Maybe Fkyjack is citing Tom?  Where would Tom have got this? The fact is there was no switch in the bomb, so far as all testimony I have is concerned...

wasn't me
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1466 on: February 04, 2017, 09:15:18 PM »
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Why do you say Cooper used an NB-6?


Knowledgeable skydiving sources in the Portland/Vancouver area tell me that it was an NB-6.


The NB-6 scenario cited by Cossey was disproven, along with the concomitant documentation in the FBI files and Larry Carr's pronouncements on the DZ. My current understanding is that Cooper used a Pioneer with a 26" Steinthaul canopy, as described by Norman Hayden, who is now generally believed to be the provider of the back chutes.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 09:18:45 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1467 on: February 05, 2017, 12:09:16 AM »
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Why do you say Cooper used an NB-6?


Knowledgeable skydiving sources in the Portland/Vancouver area tell me that it was an NB-6.

The NB-6 scenario cited by Cossey was disproven, along with the concomitant documentation in the FBI files and Larry Carr's pronouncements on the DZ. My current understanding is that Cooper used a Pioneer with a 26" Steinthaul canopy, as described by Norman Hayden, who is now generally believed to be the provider of the back chutes.

I wasn't citing Cossey.  An NB-6 could be manufactured by anyone who had made arrangements with the design owner.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 12:11:56 AM by Robert99 »
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1468 on: February 05, 2017, 04:22:25 AM »
But who gave Cooper the NB-6? FBI docs in 1971 said it was Cossey. Then Cossey changed his story. Cossey told me the NB-6 story was false.

So, if Cooper had an NB-6, how did he get it?

Current FBI docs and public statements, ie: WSHM, declare that Norman Hayden supplied the back chutes to Cooper. Hayden says both chutes were Pioneer/Steinthauls.

What say you?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 04:22:43 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1469 on: February 05, 2017, 10:37:28 AM »
I am satisfied that the chute Hayden provided to WSHM was the chute found on the plane. the photo below is from page 52 of the FBI documents, and a picture of the packing card....
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