Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1574933 times)

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #1440 on:** January 30, 2017, 11:01:23 PM »

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transcripts read below...

The plane took off at around 7:37. then seems to travel in time for a few moments (according to the transcripts) never the less, the plane leveled off at 7000', Rat slowed the plane down to 160 knots (for Cooper) and extended the flaps to 30 degree's.

The changing of speeds seem to occur more between takeoff and Toledo....from Toledo area all the way down to the Columbia was 170 knots..the plane was leveling off at 10,000 with a speed of 180-170 knots (due to leveling)

8:10 they report altitude of 10,000, flaps 15, 170 knots, and fuel flow now at 4,000, probably due to the loss of fuel. the fuel flow was an average of 4,500 earlier...

So, clearly not 225 mph as Robert99 has reported.

Robert99 · « **Reply #1441 on:** January 31, 2017, 12:38:45 AM »

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...Also, the airliner was flying at about 225 MPH (about 195 Knots True Air Speed) and NOT 180 MPH....

I believe this statement is incorrect. The plane had been flying at about 225mph until the flaps were extended to 30 degrees prior to the jump. After the flaps were extended, the speed decreased to about 180 mph, which is when DBC jumped.

No? Do you have information that would prove otherwise?

Bruce,

The performance engineers in Minneapolis told the flight crew to maintain 170 Knots Indicated Air Speed (KIAS) which was the best speed for maximum range under the existing conditions with the landing gear down and the flaps extended. KIAS is the speed that the flight crew would read on their cockpit airspeed indicators.

To determine the speed of the aircraft with respect to the air mass in which it was operating, corrections for altitude and non-standard temperature were made and this produced a figure of about 195 Knots True Air Speed (KTAS). This is about 225 MPH.

As Shutter has pointed out, the airliner was slowed down below 170 KIAS to permit the deployment of the aft stairs. But 170 KIAS was always the target indicated airspeed.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #1442 on:** January 31, 2017, 03:56:20 AM »

What would you say was the actual speed of the aircraft in mph when Cooper jumped?

Robert99 · « **Reply #1443 on:** January 31, 2017, 11:22:06 AM »

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What would you say was the actual speed of the aircraft in mph when Cooper jumped?

To repeat, 225 MPH!

georger · « **Reply #1444 on:** January 31, 2017, 12:59:38 PM »

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What would you say was the actual speed of the aircraft in mph when Cooper jumped?

To repeat, 225 MPH!

Robert99 · « **Reply #1445 on:** January 31, 2017, 02:09:01 PM »

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What would you say was the actual speed of the aircraft in mph when Cooper jumped?

To repeat, 225 MPH!

Just looked at your post with all the brackets. Now I know how to underline and highlight in black.

georger · « **Reply #1446 on:** January 31, 2017, 02:21:48 PM »

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What would you say was the actual speed of the aircraft in mph when Cooper jumped?

To repeat, 225 MPH!

Just looked at your post with all the brackets. Now I know how to underline and highlight in black.

377 · « **Reply #1447 on:** January 31, 2017, 05:13:03 PM »

Im my own jet jump experience I found that the pilots did not want to go as slow as we wanted them to. Despite our strong and clearly expressed wishes, they maintained a healthy speed margin to stay well above stall speed. This resulted in a very long narrow geographic distribution of 85 serially exiting skydivers. I was lucky and landed on the airfield but many who exited after me found themselves landing far from the DZ.

377

georger · « **Reply #1448 on:** February 01, 2017, 01:48:37 PM »

More about Canadian "accents" vs American (west or midwest). Actually there is a merger described below - Tina said "west or midwest". She understood that everyone has a dialect - phonology. She knew that Cooper fit with something somewhere language-wise. She settled on west or midwest which is interesting (I think) because the aphorisms Cooper used (get the show on the road - no funny business - do the job - etc.) are all western or midwest in origin.

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Phonology and phonetics

In terms of the major sound systems (phonologies) of English around the world, Canadian English aligns most closely to U.S. English, both being grouped together under a common North American English sound system; the mainstream Canadian accent ("Standard Canadian") is often compared to the very similar and largely overlapping "General American" accent, an accent widely spoken throughout the United States and perceived there as being relatively lacking in any noticeable regional features.

The provinces east of Ontario show the largest dialect diversity. Northern Canada is, according to William Labov, a dialect region in formation, and a homogeneous dialect has not yet formed.[44] A very homogeneous dialect exists in Western and Central Canada, a situation that is similar to that of the Western United States. Labov identifies an inland region that concentrates all of the defining features of the dialect centred on the Prairies, with periphery areas with more variable patterns including the metropolitan areas of Vancouver and Toronto.[9] This dialect forms a dialect continuum with the far Western U.S. English, however it is sharply differentiated from the Inland Northern U.S. English of the central and eastern Great Lakes region.

georger · « **Reply #1449 on:** February 01, 2017, 02:31:30 PM »

In Kaye's radio interview he cites the contradictions which makes it difficult to judge Cooper's performance level and identity. Kaye identifies these as 'A' vs. 'B' and cites specifics: put chute on easily/took defective front pack with him, referred to the chutes in terms no skydiver would use, knew the 727 could be jumped but had trouble with the rear door/stairs, thought the stairs could be lowered automatically from the cockpit, his choice of backpack, assumed the pilots would know and take off and land with stairs down with no objection, etc.

These contradictions may simply indicate that Cooper was "out of date", which could be a product of his age (early 50s) and a person using the past as his reference points.

FLYJACK · « **Reply #1450 on:** February 01, 2017, 03:01:45 PM »

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In Kaye's radio interview he cites the contradictions which makes it difficult to judge Cooper's performance level and identity. Kaye identifies these as 'A' vs. 'B' and cites specifics: put chute on easily/took defective front pack with him, referred to the chutes in terms no skydiver would use, knew the 727 could be jumped but had trouble with the rear door/stairs, thought the stairs could be lowered automatically from the cockpit, his choice of backpack, assumed the pilots would know and take off and land with stairs down with no objection, etc.

These contradictions may simply indicate that Cooper was "out of date", which could be a product of his age (early 50s) and a person using the past as his reference points.

yes, suggests knowledge but little or dated experience

georger · « **Reply #1451 on:** February 01, 2017, 03:37:52 PM »

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In Kaye's radio interview he cites the contradictions which makes it difficult to judge Cooper's performance level and identity. Kaye identifies these as 'A' vs. 'B' and cites specifics: put chute on easily/took defective front pack with him, referred to the chutes in terms no skydiver would use, knew the 727 could be jumped but had trouble with the rear door/stairs, thought the stairs could be lowered automatically from the cockpit, his choice of backpack, assumed the pilots would know and take off and land with stairs down with no objection, etc.

These contradictions may simply indicate that Cooper was "out of date", which could be a product of his age (early 50s) and a person using the past as his reference points.

yes, suggests knowledge but little or dated experience

or maybe as Carr suggested: just enough knowledge to get himself in deep trouble? But he did get the door open and the stairs down finally, all on his own. So this guy is not incompetent. Just older and under a lot of stress. (his life on the line literally)

FLYJACK · « **Reply #1452 on:** February 04, 2017, 11:15:44 AM »

I know virtually nothing about parachutes,

How would this parachute compare to the one the hijacker used.. it was used in a seat and seems longer?

This is an image I found that looks the same as the one I am investigating.

Robert99 · « **Reply #1453 on:** February 04, 2017, 12:15:52 PM »

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I know virtually nothing about parachutes,

How would this parachute compare to the one the hijacker used..

There were some major differences both in the harness and the canopy. The pilot climbing into the rear seat of a USAF T-33 appears to have on a standard USAF 28 foot back pack with a straight-across chest strap. On the Navy NB-6 that Cooper used, the chest strap is an "X" arrangement and the leg straps are a bit different as well. So when putting on the NB-6, you have to pay more attention to insure that you have all the straps straightened out and correctly fastened.

The USAF 28 foot parachute in the picture has only one Capewell release so that the canopy can be partially released and deflated to prevent the wearer being dragged through the brush after landing. The NB-6 did not have Capewell releases. The USAF parachute had links-separable at the top end of the risers for attaching the canopy to the risers. The NB-6 had the canopy shroud lines sewn into the risers and did not use links-separable for canopy attachment.

The shroud lines of the USAF parachute ran from one riser over the top of the canopy to another riser. The NB-6 shroud lines stopped at the skirt of the canopy and a cloth tape continued over the top of the canopy. This resulted in the NB-6 26 foot conical canopy being much more compact when it was packed. I owned such an NB-6 rig until about November 1, 1971 and used it as an emergency parachute when flying aircraft with cramped cockpits.

The rates of descent for these two parachute types is listed as being about the same. In my early 1960s jumping experiences with two Capewell releases on the harness, I found that the early Capewell releases weren't worth a flip in the air when you had to release them to deploy your reserve and/or release a malfunctioning main canopy.

FLYJACK · « **Reply #1454 on:** February 04, 2017, 12:31:34 PM »

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I know virtually nothing about parachutes,

How would this parachute compare to the one the hijacker used..

There were some major differences both in the harness and the canopy. The pilot climbing into the rear seat of a USAF T-33 appears to have on a standard USAF 28 foot back pack with a straight-across chest strap. On the Navy NB-6 that Cooper used, the chest strap is an "X" arrangement and the leg straps are a bit different as well. So when putting on the NB-6, you have to pay more attention to insure that you have all the straps straightened out and correctly fastened.

The USAF 28 foot parachute in the picture has only one Capewell release so that the canopy can be partially released and deflated to prevent the wearer being dragged through the brush after landing. The NB-6 did not have Capewell releases. The USAF parachute had links-separable at the top end of the risers for attaching the canopy to the risers. The NB-6 had the canopy shroud lines sewn into the risers and did not use links-separable for canopy attachment.

The shroud lines of the USAF parachute ran from one riser over the top of the canopy to another riser. The NB-6 shroud lines stopped at the skirt of the canopy and a cloth tape continued over the top of the canopy. This resulted in the NB-6 26 foot conical canopy being much more compact when it was packed. I owned such an NB-6 rig until about November 1, 1971 and used it as an emergency parachute when flying aircraft with cramped cockpits.

The rates of descent for these two parachute types is listed as being about the same. In my early 1960s jumping experiences with two Capewell releases on the harness, I found that the early Capewell releases weren't worth a flip in the air when you had to release them to deploy your reserve and/or release a malfunctioning main canopy.

Wow, that is a lot of detail, would they be similar as far as functionality and operationally in jump (except for the plane canopy).

I have an image but don't want to post publicly..

.

Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1574933 times)

Bruce A. Smith

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Robert99

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Bruce A. Smith

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Robert99

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Robert99

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

377

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

FLYJACK

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

FLYJACK

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Robert99

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

FLYJACK

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case