You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The fact that he chucked the tie and left it in plane, makes me believe more that he was Dan LeClair, who picked it up locally in Portland along with his suit and attache'.  Think about it, if it were a white collar guy he would need the tie to wear on Monday.   Psychologically speaking he ditched both the tie and threw the attache' out of the plane...
Dan LeClair, is Cooper, folks.

If LeClair was still breathing at 8:18 PM PST, November 24, 1971, then he was not Cooper.

OUCH,, fact is there are 1000+ suspects that can one can make a strong circumstantial case for and the only way to solve is put "your" suspect on that plane.. that means DNA or fingerprints.. and unless the FBI allows further testing or comps this thing never gets solved.

Assuming that the FBI has a partial DNA profile or fingerprints of Cooper, they are not going to match anyone who was still breathing after the time quoted above.  We need some bones for DNA testing.

That is one of the reasons they did the excavation at Tina Bar - looking for bones ie. Cooper himself. The logic was 'where the money is Cooper should be too' according to Tina's last report that Cooper was tying the bag around himself. No bones or other biologicals were evidently found, according to reports? Maybe Gray has more on this in his secret files ?  But I doubt it.  Very likely what Gray is holding unreleased is just 'more of the same' Maybe one passenger caught a glimpse of a Marylin Monroe photo glued to the inside lid of Cooper's brief case?

From a scientific point of view, it make sense that the tie or clasp would yield skin cell (dna, mtdna) due to the high rate at which skin cells are shed (from the neck area) during any given day. We are told it took multiple tests and the results were all partials ... of multiple donors? Does that mean more than one person wore this tie over time? Multiple donors got 'epithelial skin cells' in the small area of the tie clasp somehow! That paradox seems to have escaped Smith and other Sleuths! But Im glad to point it out for them ?   

How do you get multiple donors in a small area of a tie clasp? Moreover, all "epithelial cells". (Neck skin cells).

Hmmm. 

Multiple donors = multiple wearers/users?   

Grays docs says they took fingerprints and "epithelial cells" are on hands, so in 1971 pre DNA the tie clip is likely handled by many investigators. One of those partials is likely the hijacker..

Epithelial is a class of cells. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I was told its neck cells.

This is an example of where there is going to be conflict. If Gray's files are definitive then all forums needs to close and await the Judgement of Gray. Maybe Tom should stop too and wait?   

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The fact that he chucked the tie and left it in plane, makes me believe more that he was Dan LeClair, who picked it up locally in Portland along with his suit and attache'.  Think about it, if it were a white collar guy he would need the tie to wear on Monday.   Psychologically speaking he ditched both the tie and threw the attache' out of the plane...
Dan LeClair, is Cooper, folks.

If LeClair was still breathing at 8:18 PM PST, November 24, 1971, then he was not Cooper.

OUCH,, fact is there are 1000+ suspects that can one can make a strong circumstantial case for and the only way to solve is put "your" suspect on that plane.. that means DNA or fingerprints.. and unless the FBI allows further testing or comps this thing never gets solved.

Assuming that the FBI has a partial DNA profile or fingerprints of Cooper, they are not going to match anyone who was still breathing after the time quoted above.  We need some bones for DNA testing.

That is one of the reasons they did the excavation at Tina Bar - looking for bones ie. Cooper himself. The logic was 'where the money is Cooper should be too' according to Tina's last report that Cooper was tying the bag around himself. No bones or other biologicals were evidently found, according to reports? Maybe Gray has more on this in his secret files ?  But I doubt it.  Very likely what Gray is holding unreleased is just 'more of the same' Maybe one passenger caught a glimpse of a Marylin Monroe photo glued to the inside lid of Cooper's brief case?

From a scientific point of view, it make sense that the tie or clasp would yield skin cell (dna, mtdna) due to the high rate at which skin cells are shed (from the neck area) during any given day. We are told it took multiple tests and the results were all partials ... of multiple donors? Does that mean more than one person wore this tie over time? Multiple donors got 'epithelial skin cells' in the small area of the tie clasp somehow! That paradox seems to have escaped Smith and other Sleuths! But Im glad to point it out for them ?   

How do you get multiple donors in a small area of a tie clasp? Moreover, all "epithelial cells". (Neck skin cells).

Hmmm. 

Multiple donors = multiple wearers/users?   

Grays docs says they took fingerprints and "epithelial cells" are on hands, so in 1971 pre DNA the tie clip is likely handled by many investigators. One of those partials is likely the hijacker..

Epithelial is a class of cells. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I was told its neck cells.

True but they are also on hands..

"Where are epithelial cells?
Take a quick look at the skin on your hands.  Even if you think your skin is one smooth surface, it is actually made of millions of epithelial cells that are tightly packed next to each other.   

That’s not the only place you find these cells. Epithelial cells also line the inside of your throat, intestines, blood vessels, and all your organs. They are a barrier between the inside and outside of your body and are often the first place that is attacked by viruses as they begin their invasion deeper into the body."

.

I was told its neck skin cells. I believe Smith reported that too after talking to agents?

So if some file Gray has says differently - post the file! Its simple and we can all get on with life?

What is a partial? Instruct me!

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The fact that he chucked the tie and left it in plane, makes me believe more that he was Dan LeClair, who picked it up locally in Portland along with his suit and attache'.  Think about it, if it were a white collar guy he would need the tie to wear on Monday.   Psychologically speaking he ditched both the tie and threw the attache' out of the plane...
Dan LeClair, is Cooper, folks.

If LeClair was still breathing at 8:18 PM PST, November 24, 1971, then he was not Cooper.

OUCH,, fact is there are 1000+ suspects that can one can make a strong circumstantial case for and the only way to solve is put "your" suspect on that plane.. that means DNA or fingerprints.. and unless the FBI allows further testing or comps this thing never gets solved.

Assuming that the FBI has a partial DNA profile or fingerprints of Cooper, they are not going to match anyone who was still breathing after the time quoted above.  We need some bones for DNA testing.

That is one of the reasons they did the excavation at Tina Bar - looking for bones ie. Cooper himself. The logic was 'where the money is Cooper should be too' according to Tina's last report that Cooper was tying the bag around himself. No bones or other biologicals were evidently found, according to reports? Maybe Gray has more on this in his secret files ?  But I doubt it.  Very likely what Gray is holding unreleased is just 'more of the same' Maybe one passenger caught a glimpse of a Marylin Monroe photo glued to the inside lid of Cooper's brief case?

From a scientific point of view, it make sense that the tie or clasp would yield skin cell (dna, mtdna) due to the high rate at which skin cells are shed (from the neck area) during any given day. We are told it took multiple tests and the results were all partials ... of multiple donors? Does that mean more than one person wore this tie over time? Multiple donors got 'epithelial skin cells' in the small area of the tie clasp somehow! That paradox seems to have escaped Smith and other Sleuths! But Im glad to point it out for them ?   

How do you get multiple donors in a small area of a tie clasp? Moreover, all "epithelial cells". (Neck skin cells).

Hmmm. 

Multiple donors = multiple wearers/users?   

Grays docs says they took fingerprints and "epithelial cells" are on hands, so in 1971 pre DNA the tie clip is likely handled by many investigators. One of those partials is likely the hijacker..

Epithelial is a class of cells. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I was told its neck cells.

True but they are also on hands..

"Where are epithelial cells?
Take a quick look at the skin on your hands.  Even if you think your skin is one smooth surface, it is actually made of millions of epithelial cells that are tightly packed next to each other.   

That’s not the only place you find these cells. Epithelial cells also line the inside of your throat, intestines, blood vessels, and all your organs. They are a barrier between the inside and outside of your body and are often the first place that is attacked by viruses as they begin their invasion deeper into the body."

.

I was told its neck skin cells. I believe Smith reported that too after talking to agents?

So if some file Gray has says differently - post the file! Its simple and we can all get on with life?

What is a partial? Instruct me!

Gray's file mentioned the taking of fingerprints on the plane including the lav,, apparently the hijacker went in there for a few minutes.

Kaye and FBI claim DNA samples...

"Two fer $3" at Mac Donalds nationwide.

R 99 said: "Cooper died as a no-pull, splattered in the small area in question..."

I sure hope not R99. That spoils a wonderful legend of intrigue and escape.

I sure wish I knew if Cooper really did pull and inspect one or more packing cards form the rigs. If so he was definitely familiar with parachute gear. 

If he was familiar with parachute gear I think a no-pull is extremely unlikely. I don't, however, rule out a fatal landing (e.g drowning).

If you know parachute gear it's just not that hard to pull the ripcord handle even if you can't see it.

On today's modern skydiving rigs our equivalent of a ripcord handle (the pilot chute hackey) is completely out of sight on the rear bottom end of the back container. On EVERY jump you have to locate it by feel. It is impossible to see.

377

R 99 said: "Cooper died as a no-pull, splattered in the small area in question..."

I sure hope not R99. That spoils a wonderful legend of intrigue and escape.

I sure wish I knew if Cooper really did pull and inspect one or more packing cards form the rigs. If so he was definitely familiar with parachute gear. 

If he was familiar with parachute gear I think a no-pull is extremely unlikely. I don't, however, rule out a fatal landing (e.g drowning).

If you know parachute gear it's just not that hard to pull the ripcord handle even if you can't see it.

On today's modern skydiving rigs our equivalent of a ripcord handle (the pilot chute hackey) is completely out of sight on the rear bottom end of the back container. On EVERY jump you have to locate it by feel. It is impossible to see.

377

The whole sequence from jump to the money ending up at Tina Bar has to be consistent.  If you want Cooper to pull immediately after jumping, then you will have to move the flight path about 5 to 10 miles further west.  And there is no valid reason for placing the flight path further west than a direct route from the Malay to Canby Intersections.  This route is also supported by markings on the same map that others use to claim the flight path was further east.

Hundreds of people "disappear" ever day in the USA without missing person claims being filed.  And if Cooper had landed in the Columbia River, he probably would have been downstream of Tina Bar by daylight and before sinking to the bottom.  The Columbia River from Portland to the Pacific is a fairly benign river, but it still flows downstream. 

You should send this to Tom....

I've been contacting people about the glitter, here is what I've gotten:

Thanks for the very interesting email. I've been to the website and looked over everything carefully.

First, McCrone Labs and the FBI are incorrect when they describe any of the particles as "Glitter." Glitter is entirely man-made. Glitter and "shimmer" are often confused but although both may be found in cosmetic products, they are actually quite different. The most common form of shimmer consists of particles of mica that have been coated with a uniform thickness of titanium dioxide. Their color in reflected light depends on the thickness of the titanium dioxide layer, and the degree of the reflectivity of the shimmer particles depends on their size. There is no reason for elemental bismuth particles to be present in either glitter or shimmer. However, bismuth oxychloride is used as a shimmer particle in some cosmetic products. Energy dispersive spectroscopy (EDS) is an elemental analysis method that is often used in conjunction with scanning electron microscopy (SEM). EDS only tells you what elements are present in your sample; it does not tell you what oxidation state an element is in or what other elements it may be bound to. It's possible that the bismuth particle found on Cooper's tie was bound to oxygen and chlorine but the analysts didn't recognize that from the EDS spectrum. X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy (XPS) is a surface analysis method that could have been used and it would have quantitatively shown the amount of bismuth present, its oxidation state, and whatever elements it was bound to.

And another from Ed Jones:

I entered the forensic field in 1973 and retired in 2012.  I became involved with glitter in ~1988 as a hobby and very few of my samples date back beyond 1988.  The 2009 Forensic Files episode “All that glitters is gold” is about a 2001 homicide.
The silicon spheres that the DB Cooper web site attributes to a burning match could just as readily be from a flint based cigarette lighter.
Make up and its constituents are not my bailiwick and I can not think of any other sources of bismuth.  The people at McCrone Associates have expertise on historical samples.

...


I did see the image of Bismuth metal but did not see any images of bismuth chloride.  Bismuth chloride is both corrosive and poisonous according to wikipedia. I did look over the web site and I don’t have anything more to contribute.

The first guy, Bob Blacklege, had some more thoughts:

It would seem to me that when the FBI processed the area around the plane seat assigned to Cooper that they would have made tape lifts, and that these lifts would have surely picked up a number of human head hairs. Although many might be from other individuals, surely at least a few would be from Cooper. Running just X-DNA would eliminate all the collected hairs that originated from females. Even if they didn't on a single hair basis have enough to run genomic DNA profiling, mitochondrial DNA typing would tell them quite a bit. Also, a new method of characterizing single human hairs has recently been published. Instead of extracting DNA from the hair, they profile the proteins in the hair. See:

Demonstration of Protein-Based Human Identification Using the Hair Shaft Proteome
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Even if you don't have any hairs to examine, even though the tie is a clip-on, the act of frequently putting on and removing the tie would have left DNA traces (epithelial cells from his fingers, etc.), especially in the knot area. Although the tie has been extensively processed, hopefully the examiners wore gloves. a new method that has been shown to be very efficient at extracting DNA is called M-Vac [ You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ].

Lastly, there is an analytical method called stable isotope ratio mass spectrometry (IRMS). Its use on any hairs thought to have originated from Cooper could provide information as to where he might have lived in the past.

I like this. The first section is correct so far as I know concerning the stated limitations of eds. This is basically what I have been saying all along. Tom is careful to state: none of these tests reveal molecular associations. Again, Ive said that all along. Your witness above obviously knows the difference and is saying the same thing - none of which will come as news to Tom.

Secondly, the dna/mtdna tests the author recommends (in technical terms) are valid.

Third:  I think you have made a mistake, Andrade. Maybe Im wrong but neither McCrone or the FBI are saying "glitter" - it's Tom who is making an attribution and saying glitter.

I dont see "glitter" or "cinnabar pigment" or any other attribution on McCrones' lists. All McCrone does is atomic EDS analysis. McCrone doesn't make attributions to man made products, so far as I know. Your witness is 100% correct. So far as I know it is Tom making these attributions using an FBI particle-matching program of "possible matches" ... of which glitter would have been just one possible match.  I forget the name of this FBI program. AFIC or something like that? Tom explains this on his website somewhere. So... glitter and matches and optical glass and the like are Tom's attributions using an FBI sponsored matching program, fed by the McCrone EDS atomic element data Tom now has. Again, I think Tom mentions this somewhere on his website.

I hate to say this but none of this is going to come as news to Tom, in all likelihood. And one of your informants states the limitations of the process Tom is using, very clearly. That is important to note.       

But youve done a good work clarifying what Tom is doing and what his work means, plus bringing up new/old forensic options which could be used in this case.

I think you have made a mistake, Andrade.

I checked my exact verbiage, and I didn't name names. I called it "glitter" and sent along a link to various pages on Tom's site. Robert inferred "McCrone & FBI" from the link I sent him. I'll clarify when I respond to him.

Kaye probably knows all this, but I was given a list of contacts (which I didn't include here) that perhaps he might be interested in.

And just to clarify, I literally only asked these guys if the bismuth particles would be of "forensic value" that could limit Cooper to a "certain time and place."

Good work! You should stick with these guys for anything they can clarify.

Let me put it like one of your witnesses put it:  Glitter is a man-made product not an atomic element. McCrone supplied Tom with atomic id's of particles on his stubs.  Tom took those id's, consulted an FBI matching program of possible matches, and Tom made the choices based perhaps on other atomic elements Tom has found. But the choice of associations from atom elements to substances is Tom's, so far as I know. Perhaps Tom will clarify this.

Its good work youve done in any event - congrats!      

ps: and the guy who made the dna comments is excellent.