Bruce:   I will have to stand corrected about the Titanium found on the DB Tie. What I read too quickly from the Sleuths is as follows:

"Titanium metal was rare and exotic narrowing the field of possible D.B. Cooper suspects. The titanium particles on the tie was the most dramatic finding in this research. Most other metals would have to be written off as contamination or too common to be of any use. The additional finding that the titanium was not alloyed, allowed further restrictions on where Cooper could have acquired these unusual flecks. Cooper worked at or had access to a plant that used titanium and this fact alone reduces the number of potential suspects from millions down to hundreds."

From quick reading of the above Sleuths description, I understood that they had found both alloy and pure Titanium and when I talked with Tom Kaye I was using my mis-understanding of the Sleuths report and he was unable to unscramble my mind and that is why we had such a strange but quick discussion on the stairs in the Burke Museum (sorry Tom). Now I understand what he was trying to tell me. It still was a leap to say Boeing was not using pure Titanium for we were trying flame spraying pure Titanium on the leading edges of the flying surfaces to give abrasion and higher temperature characteristics.

Bob Sailshaw
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Bruce:   I will have to stand corrected about the Titanium found on the DB Tie. What I read too quickly from the Sleuths is as follows:

"Titanium metal was rare and exotic narrowing the field of possible D.B. Cooper suspects. The titanium particles on the tie was the most dramatic finding in this research. Most other metals would have to be written off as contamination or too common to be of any use. The additional finding that the titanium was not alloyed, allowed further restrictions on where Cooper could have acquired these unusual flecks. Cooper worked at or had access to a plant that used titanium and this fact alone reduces the number of potential suspects from millions down to hundreds."

From quick reading of the above Sleuths description, I understood that they had found both alloy and pure Titanium and when I talked with Tom Kaye I was using my mis-understanding of the Sleuths report and he was unable to unscramble my mind and that is why we had such a strange but quick discussion on the stairs in the Burke Museum (sorry Tom). Now I understand what he was trying to tell me. It still was a leap to say Boeing was not using pure Titanium for we were trying flame spraying pure Titanium on the leading edges of the flying surfaces to give abrasion and higher temperature characteristics.

Bob Sailshaw
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Well here we go again.

a. Is Tom even in a position (did he run definitive tests?) to know if it is "pure" Ti or not?  What is "pure" and whose "pure"? Pure to what standard? And Tom's tests of purity were - Or did Allen run these tests and if so what were his tests? It's one thing to read Tom Kaye's claims on his website - it's another thing entirely to do actual science. Tom Kaye is NOT Argonne Labs! 

b. As usual Tom's inferences are a helluva a leap! Example:

p1: quote: The additional finding that the titanium was not alloyed, allowed further restrictions on where Cooper could have acquired these unusual flecks.   Well actually "no" Tom. The tie acquired the flecks, not Cooper! We dont know if the tie was on Cooper when the flecks were acquired. So actually all we know is the Ti is on the tie ( was found on the tie). For all we know Cooper was riding a camel in Tibet looking for goat curds ... when THE TIE was contaminated with socalled "pure" Ti.

p2:    The additional finding that the titanium was not alloyed, means that Cooper worked at or had access to a plant that used titanium ... which reduces the suspect population from millions to just a few hundred.  Well, no it doesn't!  The one doesn't any more imply or guarantee the other any more than the fact he had shoes on means he was a Norwegian named Sven vs. millions of Spaniards in Spain!

And if all of these things are implied in Tom's head that does not mean they are implied in the heads of all sentient beings elsewhere in the whole Universe! That I can guarantee 100%!

Or we could just call this Donald Trump inferential science lesson for the day -  regarding Titanium and people whose heads are not screwed on straight because they are running for election making big claims looking for a TV Media moment vs doing science?          

Even MORE Clarity

My understanding from Tom and the CS at Portland in 2011 is that Alan Stone did all the Ti testing in his metallurgy lab in Illinois.

Alan is a pro, and I trust his findings are reliable.

Titanium shavings source? 

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377

You're welcome, Georger.

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Titanium shavings source? 

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377

I still say just because mustard shows up on my tie that does not mean I work at Heinz. I might have been to a Cubs game instead? Or somebody else was.

But to make matters worse this is not mustard but a very rare earth. So rare in fact that its only found on flying saucers! This takes us all the way from the ordinary to the sublime. Somehow I just knew it would! 

Thank you Siri. Thank you Alexa.

Thank you Bruce, Alan, Tom, and 377.

Ah, but you begin to see the picture.  This is not just any ordinary mustard.  It can't come from Heinz.  I didn't come from the Cubs game.  It is an unusual mustard, and this limits the places where it is found. 



And here is a probability analysis that the tie belonged to Cooper.

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That estimate (yes Im aware of it) is supercilious nonsense along with it's 2-Sigma advertisement. Just one more instance of grandstanding by the Kaye Industry. It might be better termed 'estimate of that tie being the same tie the hijacker wore' vs. 'that tie was DB Cooper's tie in a generic sense'. Assessing a probability is not called for or reliable, in this matter.

However, none of this has anything to do with what I said.    Tom does seem to have shown the tie was used by a smoker. However, just as I said, it is then a stretch to say 'Cooper worked for Raleigh and grew tobacco in Georgia, based solely on evidence a smoker smoked while wearing the tie. And to be even more picky: Tom has not shown the tie links to a Raleigh smoker vs Camels vs Yak-24's! So yawl can put that in your pipes and smoke it - eh?

That's all I wish to say about this red herring... 

I find the tie quite interesting, and also believe it is a key piece of evidence for the case.

Based on the spiral aluminum chips and pure titanium particles in Cooper's tie, he probably isn't a banker, baker, carpenter, insurance agent, or a host of other professionals.  If you believe the tie belonged to Cooper, and believe the Citizen Sleuth conclusions that he is an engineer in a specialized metal-working facility, then we have just drastically limited the field of suspects.

The cigarette brand he smoked, and whether or not he smoked on a regular basis, is not nearly as important as his profession and place of work.

In my book, I lean heavily on the fact that Cooper is an engineer.  He is intelligent, inventive, and meticulously plans this hijacking.  When you view the case from this perspective, all of the "mysteries" and conundrums are gone.  We are only left with who is Dan Cooper and where is he now?