Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1831238 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1245 on: November 08, 2016, 07:22:58 PM »
Yup, this file indicates that Flo came back for her purse.
 

Offline RaoulDuke24

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1246 on: November 08, 2016, 08:03:12 PM »
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Titanium

Ever since the History Channel docu, I get at least one phone call or email a week from newbies - armchair sleuths who are absolutely committed to the Hunt for DB Cooper. Bill Rollins is one of them and he is posting here farily regularly.

Another one is a fellow named Travis, and he is HOT on the trail of titanium. He is investigating Oremet vigorously and has a suspect that he is pursuing, who is still alive, apparently. Travis has done a LOT of research on titanium and its processing activity in the 1971 period, and I've encouraged him to post his findings here. He says he's a bit leery of joining the fray, as we are a little too rough. Ahem...

But here is some of the information that Travis has shared with me:

1. Oremet, located in Albany, OR, was one of five titanium processing facilities in Oregon in 1971. The others are Wah Chang, REM, Zirtech, and TiLine. All had business dealing with Boeing, the SST, NASA, and the USG. They all had involvement in top-secret projects.

2. In addition, titanium was also used in two facilities in Ohio: RMI and Titanium MetalCorp of America. The latter had a sub-division called Timet, which was located in Henderson, Nevada.

3. The Bureau of Mines had a titanium research plant in Boulder City, Nevada.

4. Travis says that there was a close relationship between Albany, Henderson, and Ohio.

I haven't followed-up on any of this to check whether any of this is true, but I figured I share it with y'all. I applaud Travis for the work he is doing, and hope he will join us here eventually. I have also encouraged him to read all of the usual sources of info (GG, Calame and Rhodes, me, Sluggo, et. al.), as he has a narrow view of the case because if his limited exposure to all of the information and conflicting data.

Very interesting. As I understood, the particular type of titanium found on the tie was unalloyed, which was quite rare in 1971. And I recall that there were very few facilities in America that were using unalloyed titanium at that time (like fewer than 10).

Did Travis make that distinction between alloyed and unalloyed in his findings? He lists 5 in Oregon alone and I was of the understanding the total was not much more than that for the entire country at that time.

(please refute my information if any of it is incorrect; this is just what I recall reading somewhere)

I've always been very interested in the titanium, especially as it relates to the SST project and the massive layoffs that ensued in the spring of '71.
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1247 on: November 08, 2016, 09:10:19 PM »
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Sorry, but I've been busy this afternoon.

The interview with both Flo and Alice is in the DB Cooper Vault.  Click on Released Flies, go down to the PDF files.  It is file #6.

Here is the link.

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For some reason, both the Flo and Alice interviews are together on this file, with Flo first followed by Alice.

Again, see page 25, near the lower part of the page, prior to the physical description.

Thank you
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1248 on: November 09, 2016, 04:01:24 PM »
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Titanium

Ever since the History Channel docu, I get at least one phone call or email a week from newbies - armchair sleuths who are absolutely committed to the Hunt for DB Cooper. Bill Rollins is one of them and he is posting here farily regularly.

Another one is a fellow named Travis, and he is HOT on the trail of titanium. He is investigating Oremet vigorously and has a suspect that he is pursuing, who is still alive, apparently. Travis has done a LOT of research on titanium and its processing activity in the 1971 period, and I've encouraged him to post his findings here. He says he's a bit leery of joining the fray, as we are a little too rough. Ahem...

But here is some of the information that Travis has shared with me:

1. Oremet, located in Albany, OR, was one of five titanium processing facilities in Oregon in 1971. The others are Wah Chang, REM, Zirtech, and TiLine. All had business dealing with Boeing, the SST, NASA, and the USG. They all had involvement in top-secret projects.

2. In addition, titanium was also used in two facilities in Ohio: RMI and Titanium MetalCorp of America. The latter had a sub-division called Timet, which was located in Henderson, Nevada.

3. The Bureau of Mines had a titanium research plant in Boulder City, Nevada.

4. Travis says that there was a close relationship between Albany, Henderson, and Ohio.

I haven't followed-up on any of this to check whether any of this is true, but I figured I share it with y'all. I applaud Travis for the work he is doing, and hope he will join us here eventually. I have also encouraged him to read all of the usual sources of info (GG, Calame and Rhodes, me, Sluggo, et. al.), as he has a narrow view of the case because if his limited exposure to all of the information and conflicting data.

Very interesting. As I understood, the particular type of titanium found on the tie was unalloyed, which was quite rare in 1971. And I recall that there were very few facilities in America that were using unalloyed titanium at that time (like fewer than 10).

Did Travis make that distinction between alloyed and unalloyed in his findings? He lists 5 in Oregon alone and I was of the understanding the total was not much more than that for the entire country at that time.

(please refute my information if any of it is incorrect; this is just what I recall reading somewhere)

I've always been very interested in the titanium, especially as it relates to the SST project and the massive layoffs that ensued in the spring of '71.

It is my understanding that the titanium found on the tie was un-alloyed. I don't know if the facilities that Travis mentions used an-alloyed Ti, but that needs to be checked.

Speaking of Travis, he emailed me last night to say that he is trying to join this Forum, has registered, but can not enter the site. I forwarded his email to Shutter, but have not heard anything back from either party.
 

Offline sailshaw

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1249 on: November 09, 2016, 05:28:02 PM »
Travis and Raoulduke      You have not read my posts of the past but the two types of Titanium were being used at Boeing at the time in our 9-101 Building in the Development Center in Seattle which was where we were doing all of the research on the SST. Both the alloy and pure Titanium were only in the 9-101 Building and the prime suspect Sheridan Peterson had his office just above  the Material and Processing Lab on the second floor.  He had to pass the scrap bins in the Lab tub skids at least twice a day and most likely got both types on his tie while looking in the scrap bins. The SST was mostly made of alloy Titanium and we were trying using pure Titanium (flame sprayed on the leading edges of the flying surfaces for abrasion and temperature characteristics). This is the most likely place that the samples on DB's tie came from. Case closed and I know he was DB Cooper because of the FLAW in his phony alibi to the FBI. He could have not been delivering any of his two children at the Hospital in Nepal as Norjak was in 1971 and his son was born in 1970 and his daughter in 1972

Bob Sailshaw
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1250 on: November 09, 2016, 07:37:50 PM »
Yes, but... the bigger question is what exactly was found on the tie. As I understand the Citizen Sleuths they only found pure Titanium. Not Sponge. Not alloyed Titanium.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1251 on: November 09, 2016, 11:33:41 PM »
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Yes, but... the bigger question is what exactly was found on the tie. As I understand the Citizen Sleuths they only found pure Titanium. Not Sponge. Not alloyed Titanium.

Was the seat on which the tie was found examined for particles? No.

Some say the tie was found slipped down between the seats - the reason it was missed on the first pass ?

On another note:  VOTE FOR THE MARTIAN - NEXT TUESDAY !
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 11:34:38 PM by georger »
 

Offline sailshaw

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1252 on: November 10, 2016, 09:59:46 AM »
Bruce Smith:  You ask what was exactly was found on the tie? and then claim the Sleuths did not find pure (or sponge Titanium). That is not correct Bruce for if you go the web sight of the Citizen Sleuths you will find all the things they found on the tie. "Their list did include pure Titanium" from their findings: "A suspect having worked in a machine shop or a company that used pure titanium in a corrosive processes would be a good match to the family of particles found on Cooper's tie."

So, Bruce the Citizen Sleuths did find both alloy and pure Titanium particles on the tie (plus other metals like stainless steel and aluminum) and you above all should know about the findings of the Sleuths (go to their web page "CitizenSleuths.com")

Their findings fit what was available in the scrap bins around the Boeing Materials and Processing Lab (9-101 Building) which was on the ground floor just below the office of Sheridan Peterson and he would have passed by those scrap bins at least two times a day as I did and I used to look into the bins at the neat throw away stuff and my tie would occasionally drop into the bins too.

Bob Sailshaw
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Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1253 on: November 10, 2016, 01:23:37 PM »
If only Sail had kept his "Boeing" tie....

377
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1254 on: November 11, 2016, 03:54:14 AM »
Sail, you are continuing to confuse me. I have always said that the CS claimed only pure titanium was on the tie. I have challenged your claim that alloyed titanium was there as well. Please explain your claims.
 

Offline sailshaw

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1255 on: November 11, 2016, 10:29:19 AM »
Bruce:  When I talked with Tom Kaye in the stairway at the Burke Museum we talked about the findings on the tie being both alloy and pure Titanium. He had jumped  to the wrong conclusion that it could have not been from Boeing as he thought we were only using alloy Titanium in the SST. He was not happy with my telling him he was wrong and how we were working with pure Titanium too (flame spraying it) in the 9-101 building. So, the sleuths had found both types of Titanium (plus other particles) on DB's tie. You need to report these things correctly or it drives me crazy.

Bob Sailshaw
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Offline Bill Rollins

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1256 on: November 11, 2016, 12:00:34 PM »
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Bruce:  When I talked with Tom Kaye in the stairway at the Burke Museum we talked about the findings on the tie being both alloy and pure Titanium. He had jumped  to the wrong conclusion that it could have not been from Boeing as he thought we were only using alloy Titanium in the SST. He was not happy with my telling him he was wrong and how we were working with pure Titanium too (flame spraying it) in the 9-101 building. So, the sleuths had found both types of Titanium (plus other particles) on DB's tie. You need to report these things correctly or it drives me crazy.

Bob Sailshaw
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Somehow, on the Citizen Sleuth website, they note a lack of alloyed titanium.

"Fact: All titanium used in aircraft is alloyed and the Cooper material was pure titanium.
Interpretation: Due to the lack of alloyed titanium, Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry."

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Where did Boeing use this pure titanium in intimate contact with a 400 series stainless steel?

Sorry, I have to agree with the Citizen Sleuth conclusions that Cooper didn't work in the aircraft industry.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1257 on: November 11, 2016, 03:42:36 PM »
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Bruce:  When I talked with Tom Kaye in the stairway at the Burke Museum we talked about the findings on the tie being both alloy and pure Titanium. He had jumped  to the wrong conclusion that it could have not been from Boeing as he thought we were only using alloy Titanium in the SST. He was not happy with my telling him he was wrong and how we were working with pure Titanium too (flame spraying it) in the 9-101 building. So, the sleuths had found both types of Titanium (plus other particles) on DB's tie. You need to report these things correctly or it drives me crazy.

Bob Sailshaw
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Somehow, on the Citizen Sleuth website, they note a lack of alloyed titanium.

"Fact: All titanium used in aircraft is alloyed and the Cooper material was pure titanium.
Interpretation: Due to the lack of alloyed titanium, Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry."

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Where did Boeing use this pure titanium in intimate contact with a 400 series stainless steel?

Sorry, I have to agree with the Citizen Sleuth conclusions that Cooper didn't work in the aircraft industry.

Ahhh but you failed to look in old copies of Popular Mechanics where Cooper may have been a contributor ...

 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1258 on: November 11, 2016, 04:30:10 PM »
Types of Titanium

Sorry, Sail, but the best that I can do is report that you are reporting that Tom Kaye told you that there were two types of titanium found on the tie. That is not what he told me, and that is not what he is reporting on the CS web site.

Until this issue is resolved, I would have to say that we researchers should continue to focus on where pure titanium could be found in 1971.
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1259 on: November 11, 2016, 05:07:18 PM »
Don't forget Bismuth.

The metal not the city.  ;)

377