Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1831166 times)

Robert99 · « **Reply #1215 on:** October 19, 2016, 06:36:39 PM »

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There is disagreement among various authors on the timing of the passenger release. The general consensus that I have found goes like this:

1. Tina brings money on board.
2. Passengers leave
3. Tina makes three trips to bring parachutes on board.

Tina has often said that she left the plane to retrieve the money bag, or others say that she did, such as GG. But that is refuted by the passengers, who say two men entered the plane and brought the money bag with them, and Tina only retrieved it from them at the forward doorway area and brought it back to Cooper.

Tosaw and a few writers have claimed that the passengers left after chutes were aboard, but I don't believe that is accurate.

Have you read Tina's statements in the FBI's 302 forms?

georger · « **Reply #1216 on:** October 20, 2016, 12:23:07 AM »

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Just finished Colbert's book about Rackstraw. Its a very good read even if you disagree with the conclusion. Rackstraw's age is the main no go for me. Many other things make him a very good DBC, including a physical resemblance, explosives training, pilot experience, HALO experience, a huge grudge, prior aircraft crime history, etc.

The book is well written, well researched (even has substantive footnotes) and does not accept any of Rackstraws BS about his military accomplishments. Even when all the boasts and lies are pierced (through careful research), you are left with a guy who still had major skills and achievements. Did he have the skills and knowledge to pull off Norjack? No doubt about that, he sure did.

For a so-called Master Criminal he got caught a lot, but Rackstraw was a lot smarter than your average felon. The depth and intensity of his sociopathy made a deep impression on those who dealt with him in the criminal justice system. He was not your average defendant. His criminal flame burned very brightly. He has been accused of con jobs, theft, murder (acquitted), stealing military explosives and much more. This guy Rackstraw was a one man crime tornado.

Could the witnesses have been THAT wrong about DBC's age so as to make Rackstraw a viable suspect? I doubt it but I cannot rule it out.

Could Tina have suffered enough memory loss so as to be unable to ID Cooper's photo if she saw it today? Again doubtful, but I can't rule it out. She seemed very competent in the History Channel interview but several FBI SA's commented long ago about her memory of the skyjack details being impaired.

Is Colbert's book worth buying? Yes. I recommend the book. Its a worthy addition to any Cooper library.

377

The thing about Rackstraw is he's done a lot of 'crazy shit'. Impulsive stuff. And he always gets caught! Kind of a varsity Duane Weber!

But he always gets caught. Could he have held it together long enough to make a plan and be Cooper? (At the right place and time)

andrade1812 · « **Reply #1217 on:** October 20, 2016, 01:16:32 AM »

Quote

For a so-called Master Criminal he got caught a lot, but Rackstraw was a lot smarter than your average felon. The depth and intensity of his sociopathy made a deep impression on those who dealt with him in the criminal justice system. (377)

We have to remember, Cooper tried to tip the Stews. Would Rackstraw take a timeout from being an awful person and do such a thing? Seems really out of character for Rackstraw, as portrayed by TJC et al.

377 · « **Reply #1218 on:** October 20, 2016, 09:52:40 AM »

Rackstraw was always charming women. Got a pair of classmates pregnant during high school. Does not seem out of character for him have offered a tip. He was a raging sociopath but sociopaths can be very cordial. Rackstraw wasn't full time belligerent.

He DID get caught a lot. No argument there. But he beat the murder case and didn't serve long sentences on the crimes he was convicted of. My guess is that this one man crime wave committed many crimes that he never was charged with.

He was one smooth operator. How does a guy who hasn't even passed the bar become a law instructor at a respected university?

The book makes him out to be a well qualified suspect but for his age. That's still a stumbling block for me. Could the witnesses have been that wrong about his age?

Combat can age people prematurely. I saw friends come back from
a year in Vietnam looking much older than their real age.

What's interesting about Rackstraw is that he bullshitted about his rank, his combat helicopter flying, being a Green Beret etc. Colbert went to the source, his CO, and found the truth. Rackstraw's real Vietnam history was quite something and he needn't have exaggerated to make a good impression, but Airborne Bob had to lie about most everything. His lies about his pre enlistment education got him in huge trouble and ended an otherwise remarkable military career.

377

andrade1812 · « **Reply #1219 on:** October 20, 2016, 05:22:41 PM »

Tipping signals status, and is a predictable behavior. Rackstraw was certainly not in a social class where we'd expect to find extravagant tipping at the time of the hijacking. I would also say there's a difference between being charming, and tipping extravagantly. Yes, Rackstraw was charming, but he used women for his own enjoyment, then tossed them to the wayside when he was done. I didn't read anything in the book that even hinted at Rackstraw giving extravagant gifts to women.

377 · « **Reply #1220 on:** October 20, 2016, 05:50:16 PM »

Tipping signals status, and is a predictable behavior.

Go to a strip club on a paycheck night and see how well your tip=K*(class status) theory holds up. A LOT of Blue Collar Dollars go out. Just sayin...

377

georger · « **Reply #1221 on:** October 20, 2016, 05:51:02 PM »

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Tipping signals status, and is a predictable behavior. Rackstraw was certainly not in a social class where we'd expect to find extravagant tipping at the time of the hijacking. I would also say there's a difference between being charming, and tipping extravagantly. Yes, Rackstraw was charming, but he used women for his own enjoyment, then tossed them to the wayside when he was done. I didn't read anything in the book that even hinted at Rackstraw giving extravagant gifts to women.

Status or simply exposure to status or awareness of status, possibly the difference in status between himself and others he's about to hijack! - there's a huge difference.

His gesture might have been an opening gambit, a gesture of defiance. He offers $20 when he's about to demand $200,000 with a case he claims is loaded with dynamite! His gesture pales compared to his threat he's about to make. He didn't stick around to party or explain!

What poor taste/status!

377 · « **Reply #1222 on:** October 20, 2016, 06:44:14 PM »

"

What poor taste/status!"

Indeed. Downright uncouth.

It all started when people stopped dressing up for airline flights. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"The cocktail and observation lounge will accommodate fourteen persons in luxury before unknown to air travel."

377

andrade1812 · « **Reply #1223 on:** October 20, 2016, 08:41:38 PM »

I'm not sure if money thrown at a stripper is a "tip" or just a fair exchange of services... nor do I really want to meditate on it...

EVickiW · « **Reply #1224 on:** October 20, 2016, 09:12:04 PM »

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Tipping signals status, and is a predictable behavior. Rackstraw was certainly not in a social class where we'd expect to find extravagant tipping at the time of the hijacking. I would also say there's a difference between being charming, and tipping extravagantly. Yes, Rackstraw was charming, but he used women for his own enjoyment, then tossed them to the wayside when he was done. I didn't read anything in the book that even hinted at Rackstraw giving extravagant gifts to women.

Or tipping is common place for someone who worked, or had worked, in the service industry. Bartenders in night club restaurants/bars would even wear black ties with white dress shirts.

georger · « **Reply #1225 on:** October 20, 2016, 11:42:29 PM »

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" What poor taste/status!"

Indeed. Downright uncouth.

It all started when people stopped dressing up for airline flights. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"The cocktail and observation lounge will accommodate fourteen persons in luxury before unknown to air travel."

377

His tipping of course gives him an opportunity to judge people's reaction(s). Everything else then follows. Nothing he does is wasted effort. All a part of the hijacking. He isn't on a pleasure trip. It's a hijacking!

MeyerLouie · « **Reply #1226 on:** October 26, 2016, 07:15:54 PM »

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Meyer

This is one thing that puzzled me. Rataczak did say in the History Channel show that if the flight attendants had followed Tina out on the last trip, they could have left Cooper alone on the plane. When did he let the passengers leave? I didn't think it was until AFTER Tina had brought the last items on board. If so, there would have been no way to sneak the other flight attendants off and leave Cooper alone.

I see what you're saying Mark, of course. Rataczak is not making a lot of sense. If Florence and Alice did actually leave on Tina's last trip out to get the last parachute(s), that would not leave Cooper alone. The passengers and crew would still on board. If the crew followed all the stewardesses out, then that would leave just Cooper and the passengers on board -- which wouldn't happen under any circumstances. After Cooper got the money and chutes, Tina asked Cooper if it was okay to let the passengers go. He said okay. Others have confirmed that as well. Rad said the consensus of the crew was to stay with Tina, so that's why they were all there -- Tina and the crew. Flo and Alice left too, with the passengers, I believe. Remember, on Tina's last trip, the crew told Flo to get the hell out now, and Flo said that's why she left Tina behind.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #1227 on:** November 07, 2016, 01:36:28 AM »

Titanium

Ever since the History Channel docu, I get at least one phone call or email a week from newbies - armchair sleuths who are absolutely committed to the Hunt for DB Cooper. Bill Rollins is one of them and he is posting here farily regularly.

Another one is a fellow named Travis, and he is HOT on the trail of titanium. He is investigating Oremet vigorously and has a suspect that he is pursuing, who is still alive, apparently. Travis has done a LOT of research on titanium and its processing activity in the 1971 period, and I've encouraged him to post his findings here. He says he's a bit leery of joining the fray, as we are a little too rough. Ahem...

But here is some of the information that Travis has shared with me:

1. Oremet, located in Albany, OR, was one of five titanium processing facilities in Oregon in 1971. The others are Wah Chang, REM, Zirtech, and TiLine. All had business dealing with Boeing, the SST, NASA, and the USG. They all had involvement in top-secret projects.

2. In addition, titanium was also used in two facilities in Ohio: RMI and Titanium MetalCorp of America. The latter had a sub-division called Timet, which was located in Henderson, Nevada.

3. The Bureau of Mines had a titanium research plant in Boulder City, Nevada.

4. Travis says that there was a close relationship between Albany, Henderson, and Ohio.

I haven't followed-up on any of this to check whether any of this is true, but I figured I share it with y'all. I applaud Travis for the work he is doing, and hope he will join us here eventually. I have also encouraged him to read all of the usual sources of info (GG, Calame and Rhodes, me, Sluggo, et. al.), as he has a narrow view of the case because if his limited exposure to all of the information and conflicting data.

georger · « **Reply #1228 on:** November 07, 2016, 03:07:07 AM »

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Meyer

This is one thing that puzzled me. Rataczak did say in the History Channel show that if the flight attendants had followed Tina out on the last trip, they could have left Cooper alone on the plane. When did he let the passengers leave? I didn't think it was until AFTER Tina had brought the last items on board. If so, there would have been no way to sneak the other flight attendants off and leave Cooper alone.

I see what you're saying Mark, of course. Rataczak is not making a lot of sense. If Florence and Alice did actually leave on Tina's last trip out to get the last parachute(s), that would not leave Cooper alone. The passengers and crew would still on board. If the crew followed all the stewardesses out, then that would leave just Cooper and the passengers on board -- which wouldn't happen under any circumstances. After Cooper got the money and chutes, Tina asked Cooper if it was okay to let the passengers go. He said okay. Others have confirmed that as well. Rad said the consensus of the crew was to stay with Tina, so that's why they were all there -- Tina and the crew. Flo and Alice left too, with the passengers, I believe. Remember, on Tina's last trip, the crew told Flo to get the hell out now, and Flo said that's why she left Tina behind.

Your scenario is bolstered by the transcripts.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #1229 on:** November 07, 2016, 04:58:47 PM »

Not exactly, Georger. The crew debriefing in Reno clearly states that the departure of the passengers/procurement of the money and chutes went as follows:

1. Tina leaves plane to get money. Returns to rear of aircraft with money.
2. Passengers depart.
3. Flo and Alice follow.
4. Tina makes three more trips off the plane to get the chutes.

I agree that in the process of the above the cockpit crew decided to stay with Tina, and did so, obviously.

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1831166 times)

Robert99

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

andrade1812

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

377

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

andrade1812

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

377

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

377

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

andrade1812

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

EVickiW

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

MeyerLouie

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Bruce A. Smith

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Bruce A. Smith

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case