Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1831105 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1185 on: September 22, 2016, 03:26:18 PM »
Ahem, Georger, I have already bypassed the DNA issue with my mind-melding and have gone directly to the source. See Chapter 36.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1186 on: September 22, 2016, 03:47:28 PM »
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Ahem, Georger, I have already bypassed the DNA issue with my mind-melding and have gone directly to the source. See Chapter 36.

Im sure you think you have ....  :))

I will let Craig Venter know your services are available!

<ps> Craig says: "Never heard of the guy. Not interested in his mind? Refer him on ...  :))"

« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 05:29:33 PM by georger »
 

haggarknew

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1187 on: September 23, 2016, 12:18:06 AM »
quote from Georger :well yes of course ... but the interphone is in Hades. Bruce Smith will mind meld it up for us!

Otherwise the interphone conceivably could have provided genetic material from several sources - saliva, touch dna, blood, etc. See this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The plane's lavatory/waste system might have also have provided a source. !  >:D

In today's world the first thing people would have gone for would have been Cooper's dna.



                  Would it have been possible and do you think they got any fingerprint(s) from the phone?


« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 12:19:15 AM by haggarknew »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1188 on: September 23, 2016, 02:39:16 AM »
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quote from Georger :well yes of course ... but the interphone is in Hades. Bruce Smith will mind meld it up for us!

Otherwise the interphone conceivably could have provided genetic material from several sources - saliva, touch dna, blood, etc. See this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The plane's lavatory/waste system might have also have provided a source. !  >:D

In today's world the first thing people would have gone for would have been Cooper's dna.



                  Would it have been possible and do you think they got any fingerprint(s) from the phone?

If there were prints on the phone then yes it should have been easy to lift them, by 1971 forensic standards.

Did they - apparently not. It's my understanding Gray did the best work on the print matter when he examined files at Seattle. Between Gray's work and articles, and Ckret's comments about prints at DZ, we are told that Reno agents apparently did not come away with any "viable" prints that met forensically usable standards in their first canvas of the airplane. So agents  were ordered in a second time (and who knows how many other times!) to concentrate on finding and collecting prints. Neither Ckret or Gray mentions prints being lifted from the interphone in any of these attempts. However items including cigarette butts and magazines in the area where Cooper sat, were collected. Walls and seats in the area where Cooper was were examined, also. A sum-total of 50-60 prints were collected as a result. Of these 50-60 prints "a few" matches were eventually made but all of the persons identified were eliminated as suspects, according to Ckret and Gray. That left perhaps 40-50 prints of various qualities and completeness some of which might be from Cooper, but no matches to individuals has ever been made, according to Gray, Ckret, and others.

Attempts were made to try and raise prints from some of the Ingram money - that was (predictably) an abject failure (and destructive in its extent!). All that did was contaminate the money for other vital tests!

I spent some time tonight collecting posts, articles, etc about the 'prints' from various sources and I will put that together and give it to Shutter for the evidence Vault. It's an interesting collection of various testimonials and
comments -


     
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 02:57:10 AM by georger »
 

Offline George21226

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1189 on: October 01, 2016, 12:17:31 PM »
I'm new but quite interested. I read some people think Cooper could've died in the forests near Mount St. Helen, then 9 years later his bones and parachute got buried by the the volcano. Before I even look at this crazy idea, does anyone believe he could have landed there? If so, was it even searched? Who would know that?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1190 on: October 01, 2016, 12:43:06 PM »
Welcome George -

I don't believe that DB Cooper landed on Mt Saint Helens because I don't think Flight 305 was flying that far east of Victor-23, but it could have been.

The guy flying the plane, Bill Rataczak, said in the History Channel documentary that when DBC jumped he only had five-thousand feet of air space to deploy his chute in, since the plane was at 10,000 feet in altitude and was flying over terrain that was five-thousand feet in elevation. The only place to get that much elevation at around 8:13 pm is over the slopes of Mt. Saint Helens.

So, the bigger question is how much weight to give to Rataczak's s statements since he has said SO many conflicting statements on the flight path, ie: V-23, lights of Portland and Vancouver coming up, east of V-23, etc.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 12:44:04 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1191 on: October 01, 2016, 01:23:09 PM »
Quote
So, the bigger question is how much weight to give to Rataczak's s statements since he has said SO many conflicting statements on the flight path, ie: V-23, lights of Portland and Vancouver coming up, east of V-23, etc.

Bill never gave any indication that the 5,000 foot level was anywhere near the dropzone. it's much further south where they run into this problem..
 
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Offline George21226

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1192 on: October 01, 2016, 02:09:36 PM »
If Cooper survived jump, how'd he  escape? By private car or bus (unlikely, officials watching roads), small aircraft (FBI reported some people heard plane engine in storm) or how about a boat -- posing as local fisherman? I don't see much on this theory -- escaping by Lake Merwin, the Lewis or Columbia Rivers. Was there any FBI or Coast Guard interviews at harbors or old canneries?
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1193 on: October 01, 2016, 03:16:00 PM »
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I'm new but quite interested. I read some people think Cooper could've died in the forests near Mount St. Helen, then 9 years later his bones and parachute got buried by the the volcano. Before I even look at this crazy idea, does anyone believe he could have landed there? If so, was it even searched? Who would know that?

The probability of Cooper landing anywhere near Mount St. Helens is zero.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1194 on: October 01, 2016, 11:26:04 PM »
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I'm new but quite interested. I read some people think Cooper could've died in the forests near Mount St. Helen, then 9 years later his bones and parachute got buried by the the volcano. Before I even look at this crazy idea, does anyone believe he could have landed there? If so, was it even searched? Who would know that?

The probability of Cooper landing anywhere near Mount St. Helens is zero.

Thus his bone or his shadow (memory) were unaffected by Mt St Helens. He probably watched it on tv somewhere  :))
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1195 on: October 02, 2016, 01:22:45 AM »
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I'm new but quite interested. I read some people think Cooper could've died in the forests near Mount St. Helen, then 9 years later his bones and parachute got buried by the the volcano. Before I even look at this crazy idea, does anyone believe he could have landed there? If so, was it even searched? Who would know that?

The probability of Cooper landing anywhere near Mount St. Helens is zero.

Thus his bone or his shadow (memory) were unaffected by Mt St Helens. He probably watched it on tv somewhere  :))

By satellite TV from somewhere in the western Pacific. :))
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1196 on: October 02, 2016, 03:50:44 AM »
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Bill never gave any indication that the 5,000 foot level was anywhere near the dropzone. it's much further south where they run into this problem..


I disagree. We've discussed this before, and it remains unresolved. But, Bill was quite specific. He said, he was over 5,000 foot terrain "when Cooper jumped" meaning 8:13 pm, or words to that effect. I understand that the higher elevations Flight 305 encountered over the traditional flight path was much further south - certainly near Reno - but that is not the impression I got from his statements, nor the interpretation that LMNO gave to his words because the graphic they created shows the higher elevation existing beneath 305 when Cooper jumped. However, they failed to extrapolate and interpret Bill's words, and thus give a location, such as MSH. I consider it a major goof by LMNO.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1197 on: October 02, 2016, 11:40:50 AM »
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Bill never gave any indication that the 5,000 foot level was anywhere near the dropzone. it's much further south where they run into this problem..


I disagree. We've discussed this before, and it remains unresolved. But, Bill was quite specific. He said, he was over 5,000 foot terrain "when Cooper jumped" meaning 8:13 pm, or words to that effect. I understand that the higher elevations Flight 305 encountered over the traditional flight path was much further south - certainly near Reno - but that is not the impression I got from his statements, nor the interpretation that LMNO gave to his words because the graphic they created shows the higher elevation existing beneath 305 when Cooper jumped. However, they failed to extrapolate and interpret Bill's words, and thus give a location, such as MSH. I consider it a major goof by LMNO.


"he wanted us to fly at 10,000 feet, we were really only about 5,000 feet above the ground, because that is where the mountain ranges were starting to come up, we were flying in the overcast, and we were getting ice on our wings, we were getting ice on the cockpit window"

again, he says nothing about the location. "the mountain ranges were coming up"

this again is true, but later down the flight path, this also includes the trouble with the icing. I believe that is because of the terrain changes.

If you accept the 8:13 time frame, then the path would have to be further east as Jerry Thomas, and Himmelsbach claim. over Green mountain area...

9:35 pm   " 11,000' also needed for adequate terrain clearance RBL-RNO"

« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 04:11:33 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1198 on: October 02, 2016, 05:16:28 PM »
Green Mountain is only 4,000 feet high, I believe, and the surrounding areas are not much more than 1,000 foot in elevation. To get to anything consistently around 5,000 foot in elevation you have to go on the western slope of Mt St Helens.
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1199 on: October 02, 2016, 05:30:28 PM »
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Bill never gave any indication that the 5,000 foot level was anywhere near the dropzone. it's much further south where they run into this problem..


I disagree. We've discussed this before, and it remains unresolved. But, Bill was quite specific. He said, he was over 5,000 foot terrain "when Cooper jumped" meaning 8:13 pm, or words to that effect. I understand that the higher elevations Flight 305 encountered over the traditional flight path was much further south - certainly near Reno - but that is not the impression I got from his statements, nor the interpretation that LMNO gave to his words because the graphic they created shows the higher elevation existing beneath 305 when Cooper jumped. However, they failed to extrapolate and interpret Bill's words, and thus give a location, such as MSH. I consider it a major goof by LMNO.


"he wanted us to fly at 10,000 feet, we were really only about 5,000 feet above the ground, because that is where the mountain ranges were starting to come up, we were flying in the overcast, and we were getting ice on our wings, we were getting ice on the cockpit window"

again, he says nothing about the location. "the mountain ranges were coming up"

this again is true, but later down the flight path, this also includes the trouble with the icing. I believe that is because of the terrain changes.

If you accept the 8:13 time frame, then the path would have to be further east as Jerry Thomas, and Himmelsbach claim. over Green mountain area...

9:35 pm   " 11,000' also needed for adequate terrain clearance RBL-RNO"



According to the "FBI Notes", the airliner was in the Medford area when they encountered icing conditions.