The flight engineer would handle those issues.


I mentioned in the past that it's possible the crew demands were mixed in with Cooper's. if they knew Cooper wanted a map, it would clearly show he has no idea where he is at. landing in the woods, a map is useless. what kind of map, Seattle, Portland area? dead give away....

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Can anyone shed light on the "maps" that Cooper supposedly asked for with his demand list?  Is this confirmed, and if so what were the maps provided, and what happened to them?

From Hancock interview, document SE 164-81, p.55:
"She stated that the hijacker made his demands known in this order:
1. He wanted the money first
2. He wanted people off the aircraft after money was onboard
3. He wanted parachutes and four crew meals
4. He wanted the plane completely re-fueled
5. He wanted maps"

From Mucklow interview, document PH 164-133, p.50:
"She told him that they had crew meals and maps, and requested permission to go get them.  He said "yes", and she did, returning the items and taking a seat next to him"

The maps that Al Lee, Chief NWA Pilot in Seattle, had delivered to the flight crew, along with the crew meals, were aircraft IFR navigation charts and instrument approach procedures.  This would be maps that the flight crew would need to get to Reno and further south.  Typically, the flight crew would be carrying such charts only for the area of their scheduled routes.

The maps that Cooper wanted were probably the same maps mentioned above.  If Cooper had specified a non-aviation map, he would be giving away information on his planned jump point.

The maps that Cooper wanted - he wanted maps

Im not sure Cooper wanted or ordered ANY maps!  I think the issue was leaving the plane for any purpose so they were explaining to Cooper why they needed to leave the plane or let people on the plane. The problem may be we dont have the full conversation in the transcripts - without that the context and exact order or who said what is sometimes impossible to understand.

There is no line that says he was given "the maps". There is no line stating he wanted maps. There is no line in the Pilot Notes that mentions maps as one of his demands. There is no testimony about him looking at maps he had been given. There is no testimony from anyone about what maps he was given. The only source for him wanting maps is the one line in a later interview Tina did but maps is not listed in his original demands in the Pilot Notes.

 

You are 100 percent correct that the only indication that Cooper wanted maps was that one line Tina remark.  The only maps that Al Lee sent to the airplane were in the same box as the crew meals and were aeronautical charts and approach plates that the flight crew needed to get to Mexico.  Cooper did not see those maps and did not discuss them with the flight crew.  And Cooper didn't say anything about the flight south that would require him to look at or discuss maps with the flight crew.

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quote from Robert 99:
You are 100 percent correct that the only indication that Cooper wanted maps was that one line Tina remark.  The only maps that Al Lee sent to the airplane were in the same box as the crew meals and were aeronautical charts and approach plates that the flight crew needed to get to Mexico.  Cooper did not see those maps and did not discuss them with the flight crew.  And Cooper didn't say anything about the flight south that would require him to look at or discuss maps with the flight crew.



                      D.B. agreed to let them refuel in Reno with no hesitation. He didn't need to reference a map then... I don't think D.B. was interested in a map. I think Tina's remark may have been in reference to the navigational charts(that the flight crew probably asked for?) that you mentioned earlier.

                       I wonder which member of the flight crew had to do the plotting ( would the crew be doing the fuel calculations also ? ) For whatever it matters, might Tina have seen this flight crew member doing calculations( maybe with the charts being confused by Tina as being maps). Wouldn't this flight crew person be doing these calculations outside the cockpit area ?

And there in a nutshell is the issue. What calcs did he make or have to make - what was the route(s)? - what was the flight path on or off V23? It seems to me a little pointless to wonder about calcs someone made when we dont even know what the route was (for sure) from SEA to Portland. That is the matter being debated. It wuld appear to me he didn;t have to make too many cals because ATC (R2 etc) was guiding him the whole way based on a number of variables like (intercepts - and who knows what). They had been told they could do 'whatever you want' and were getting real-time guidance from ATC controllers. So what "calculations" were needed or came into play?   

According to the Transcripts the only significant thing being 'calculated' was fuel consumption vis-a-vis air speed, flap settings, and possibly drag ?

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quote from Robert 99:
You are 100 percent correct that the only indication that Cooper wanted maps was that one line Tina remark.  The only maps that Al Lee sent to the airplane were in the same box as the crew meals and were aeronautical charts and approach plates that the flight crew needed to get to Mexico.  Cooper did not see those maps and did not discuss them with the flight crew.  And Cooper didn't say anything about the flight south that would require him to look at or discuss maps with the flight crew.



                      D.B. agreed to let them refuel in Reno with no hesitation. He didn't need to reference a map then... I don't think D.B. was interested in a map. I think Tina's remark may have been in reference to the navigational charts(that the flight crew probably asked for?) that you mentioned earlier.

                       I wonder which member of the flight crew had to do the plotting ( would the crew be doing the fuel calculations also ? ) For whatever it matters, might Tina have seen this flight crew member doing calculations( maybe with the charts being confused by Tina as being maps). Wouldn't this flight crew person be doing these calculations outside the cockpit area ?

And there in a nutshell is the issue. What calcs did he make or have to make - what was the route(s)? - what was the flight path on or off V23? It seems to me a little pointless to wonder about calcs someone made when we dont even know what the route was (for sure) from SEA to Portland. That is the matter being debated. It wuld appear to me he didn;t have to make too many cals because ATC (R2 etc) was guiding him the whole way based on a number of variables like (intercepts - and who knows what). They had been told they could do 'whatever you want' and were getting real-time guidance from ATC controllers. So what "calculations" were needed or came into play?   

According to the Transcripts the only significant thing being 'calculated' was fuel consumption vis-a-vis air speed, flap settings, and possibly drag ?

The flight engineer would take care of the fuel calculations to make sure they had a sufficient amount to get to Reno (actually the performance engineers in Minneapolis told them when they were in the Portland area that they had adequate fuel to get there) and he would move fuel from tank to tank as needed to keep the center-of-gravity in the right place.

The pilots would not need to calculate much of anything.  They were flying at a specified altitude with the flaps at a designated setting.  When they were on V-23 and doing their own navigation between VORTACS, their DME would give them their ground speed and the distance between the VORTACS was listed on those aeronautical charts.  So it was just a simple matter to calculate their time over the next VORTAC.

When bypassing Portland and when flying off-airways between the Red Bluff VORTAC and Reno, the air traffic controller would be responsible for the navigation although the flight crew would undoubtedly be double checking him on their own instruments.

Overall, things would be quite simple.

And, to answer's Hag's question, there would be no reason for the flight engineer to leave the cockpit to do any of his work?

The crew states 'they never saw Cooper' if that is what is being hinted at ?

There was no reason for any of the flight crew to leave the cockpit.  Captain Scott said in his FBI interview in Reno that he personally did not see or interact with the hijacker.  There is no indication that Rataczak or Anderson saw the hijacker but one of them was probably on the interphone with Cooper when he was asking for the aircraft to be slowed down, etc..

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There was no reason for any of the flight crew to leave the cockpit.  Captain Scott said in his FBI interview in Reno that he personally did not see or interact with the hijacker.  There is no indication that Rataczak or Anderson saw the hijacker but one of them was probably on the interphone with Cooper when he was asking for the aircraft to be slowed down, etc..

Is it possible to get a DNA sample from the interphone?