Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1830748 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1035 on: May 25, 2016, 05:00:44 PM »
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Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time.....

This is a key point, but what did he mean? that's the million dollar question...

It means that Cooper was looking for a 727, a fact that he confirmed with the ticket agent, knew how to read an airline time and equipment schedule, and had enough brainpower to decide that it was the NWA 727 flight into Portland (and headed to Seattle) that he wanted to board.

that he wanted to board.  wanted to hijack. He evidently had been looking for an opportunity to hijack 'the right plane in the right place and time'. Key word 'opportunity'. An opportunity that fit his idea of a plan for hijacking a plane and bailing out to escape.


I'm not sure the direction makes a difference. he could simply tell them where to go from takeoff. "the right time" ?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1036 on: May 25, 2016, 05:35:02 PM »
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Hello, this is my first post but I'm longtime browser.  I've enjoyed reading the discussions here and appreciate the effort that has been put into this website.

All the conflicting claims and supposed evidence in the DBC case is really frustrating.  Sluggo's website has a nice section on the facts and myths of the DBC case. Unfortunately it has not been updated since 2010.  Has any new evidence been released since then?  It would be really helpful to have all the physical evidence and witness statements in one place with footnotes as to their source.  It could be presented in a hierarchy based on how authoritative it is.  For example level 1 is physical evidence, level 2 is eyewitness testimony, level 3 is testimony from individuals who viewed the FBI files, etc.  I would start it myself but currently don't have the time or knowledge required. 

One thing that has been irking me lately is this: According to Sluggo's website, DBC asked for "$200,000 in cash" and not negotiable American currency as reported on many websites and books.  Until the facts are agreed on discussing suspects is an exercise in frustration.

Thanks for the vent. Still on my second cup of coffee this morning.

Now that I've had my second cup o' coffee....let me say that is great to see a new guy join the Cooper crew. A couple of thoughts:

1. I've come to learn after researching the case as a journalist since 2008 that facts are few in the Cooper case, and they are subject to a surprising degree of interpretation and dispute. So, Good Luck! Most of us develop a thicker skin and continue to read, post, and ponder...

2. There are many sources of information and all have some flaws, including Sluggo's site. Even the FBI's documentation has errors and misleading information, coupled with commentaries from agents who have clearly not read all the pertinent files nor fully understood them, such as Larry Carr's bumbling at the DZ about Earl Cossey's ownership of the parachutes.

3. Most researchers and posters here and elsewhere are selective in what they read about Cooper. I am ASTONISHED at how many people call me/email me with questions, offer commentaries or solicit support who have not read my book - or they only read the sections they want, such as on their favorite suspect. Last night, Galen Cook confessed to me that he has not read my book, even though he is featured in many sections of it. But he promised to start reading it (!) this summer after he makes some real money being a lawyer.

4. As a result of #3, above, most of us treat the Forum as a kind of watering hole, gathering with kindred spirits to muse and pontificate upon DBC. Most of us here speak authoritatively - with varying degrees of mockery in our voice - but it all has to be taken with a smile and a sip of Tequila. Unless Georger really pisses me off and I have to give him a dose of his own medicine. Remember, gossip rules here and everywhere else, and successful writers never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

5. A recommended list of Cooper books has been mentioned at various places in the Forum and elsewhere, but it might be useful to post some thoughts, again:

          - the top books on Cooper are written by: Geoffrey Gray, Richard Tosaw, Ralph Himmelsbach, and Russ Calame. I also consider my book, DB Cooper and the FBI to be a worthy addition to the literature. Also, lots of interviews with Norjak principals are posted at my online news magazine, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, which is free to access. Other sites also have value, such as Geoffrey's huntfordbcooper.com, and Marty Andrade's blog on Cooper.

6. Lastly, I have found that discussions about suspects are more appropriately understood to be arguments on whom we would like DB Cooper to be. I am one of those who feels that when we finally learn who DB Cooper is, we'll say, "Who the hell is that?"
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1037 on: May 25, 2016, 06:02:36 PM »
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Hello, this is my first post but I'm longtime browser.  I've enjoyed reading the discussions here and appreciate the effort that has been put into this website.

All the conflicting claims and supposed evidence in the DBC case is really frustrating.  Sluggo's website has a nice section on the facts and myths of the DBC case. Unfortunately it has not been updated since 2010.  Has any new evidence been released since then?  It would be really helpful to have all the physical evidence and witness statements in one place with footnotes as to their source.  It could be presented in a hierarchy based on how authoritative it is.  For example level 1 is physical evidence, level 2 is eyewitness testimony, level 3 is testimony from individuals who viewed the FBI files, etc.  I would start it myself but currently don't have the time or knowledge required. 

One thing that has been irking me lately is this: According to Sluggo's website, DBC asked for "$200,000 in cash" and not negotiable American currency as reported on many websites and books.  Until the facts are agreed on discussing suspects is an exercise in frustration.

Thanks for the vent. Still on my second cup of coffee this morning.

Now that I've had my second cup o' coffee....let me say that is great to see a new guy join the Cooper crew. A couple of thoughts:

1. I've come to learn after researching the case as a journalist since 2008 that facts are few in the Cooper case, and they are subject to a surprising degree of interpretation and dispute. So, Good Luck! Most of us develop a thicker skin and continue to read, post, and ponder...

2. There are many sources of information and all have some flaws, including Sluggo's site. Even the FBI's documentation has errors and misleading information, coupled with commentaries from agents who have clearly not read all the pertinent files nor fully understood them, such as Larry Carr's bumbling at the DZ about Earl Cossey's ownership of the parachutes.

3. Most researchers and posters here and elsewhere are selective in what they read about Cooper. I am ASTONISHED at how many people call me/email me with questions, offer commentaries or solicit support who have not read my book - or they only read the sections they want, such as on their favorite suspect. Last night, Galen Cook confessed to me that he has not read my book, even though he is featured in many sections of it. But he promised to start reading it (!) this summer after he makes some real money being a lawyer.

4. As a result of #3, above, most of us treat the Forum as a kind of watering hole, gathering with kindred spirits to muse and pontificate upon DBC. Most of us here speak authoritatively - with varying degrees of mockery in our voice - but it all has to be taken with a smile and a sip of Tequila. Unless Georger really pisses me off and I have to give him a dose of his own medicine. Remember, gossip rules here and everywhere else, and successful writers never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

5. A recommended list of Cooper books has been mentioned at various places in the Forum and elsewhere, but it might be useful to post some thoughts, again:

          - the top books on Cooper are written by: Geoffrey Gray, Richard Tosaw, Ralph Himmelsbach, and Russ Calame. I also consider my book, DB Cooper and the FBI to be a worthy addition to the literature. Also, lots of interviews with Norjak principals are posted at my online news magazine, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, which is free to access. Other sites also have value, such as Geoffrey's huntfordbcooper.com, and Marty Andrade's blog on Cooper.

6. Lastly, I have found that discussions about suspects are more appropriately understood to be arguments on whom we would like DB Cooper to be. I am one of those who feels that when we finally learn who DB Cooper is, we'll say, "Who the hell is that?"

"Who the hell is that?"  Bruce, I think you have it right on that point.  If Cooper's identity ever becomes known, it will probably be a name that no one on this thread has heard before. 
 

Offline Mack

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1038 on: May 25, 2016, 10:21:18 PM »
Thanks for the welcomes.  A little bit of background on me, I am a CPA and have been focusing on taxes in recent years but in the past have been involved in forensic auditing and fraud examinations.  I love to dig and do research, but finding the time is always a challenge.  I hope I can add a fresh point of view to the Cooper case.   
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1039 on: May 25, 2016, 10:29:56 PM »
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Thanks for the welcomes.  A little bit of background on me, I am a CPA and have been focusing on taxes in recent years but in the past have been involved in forensic auditing and fraud examinations.  I love to dig and do research, but finding the time is always a challenge.  I hope I can add a fresh point of view to the Cooper case.


I like a person who digs into things  8) it's the only way with finding the truth..

The older you get seems to make the hour hand turn into the minute hand  ;D ;D ;D ;D
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1040 on: May 25, 2016, 11:28:16 PM »
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Thanks for the welcomes.  A little bit of background on me, I am a CPA and have been focusing on taxes in recent years but in the past have been involved in forensic auditing and fraud examinations.  I love to dig and do research, but finding the time is always a challenge.  I hope I can add a fresh point of view to the Cooper case.

Welcomen! Your skills and viewpoint are needed.  ;)
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1041 on: May 25, 2016, 11:34:54 PM »
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Hello, this is my first post but I'm longtime browser.  I've enjoyed reading the discussions here and appreciate the effort that has been put into this website.

All the conflicting claims and supposed evidence in the DBC case is really frustrating.  Sluggo's website has a nice section on the facts and myths of the DBC case. Unfortunately it has not been updated since 2010.  Has any new evidence been released since then?  It would be really helpful to have all the physical evidence and witness statements in one place with footnotes as to their source.  It could be presented in a hierarchy based on how authoritative it is.  For example level 1 is physical evidence, level 2 is eyewitness testimony, level 3 is testimony from individuals who viewed the FBI files, etc.  I would start it myself but currently don't have the time or knowledge required. 

One thing that has been irking me lately is this: According to Sluggo's website, DBC asked for "$200,000 in cash" and not negotiable American currency as reported on many websites and books.  Until the facts are agreed on discussing suspects is an exercise in frustration.

Thanks for the vent. Still on my second cup of coffee this morning.

Now that I've had my second cup o' coffee....let me say that is great to see a new guy join the Cooper crew. A couple of thoughts:

1. I've come to learn after researching the case as a journalist since 2008 that facts are few in the Cooper case, and they are subject to a surprising degree of interpretation and dispute. So, Good Luck! Most of us develop a thicker skin and continue to read, post, and ponder...

2. There are many sources of information and all have some flaws, including Sluggo's site. Even the FBI's documentation has errors and misleading information, coupled with commentaries from agents who have clearly not read all the pertinent files nor fully understood them, such as Larry Carr's bumbling at the DZ about Earl Cossey's ownership of the parachutes.

3. Most researchers and posters here and elsewhere are selective in what they read about Cooper. I am ASTONISHED at how many people call me/email me with questions, offer commentaries or solicit support who have not read my book - or they only read the sections they want, such as on their favorite suspect. Last night, Galen Cook confessed to me that he has not read my book, even though he is featured in many sections of it. But he promised to start reading it (!) this summer after he makes some real money being a lawyer.

4. As a result of #3, above, most of us treat the Forum as a kind of watering hole, gathering with kindred spirits to muse and pontificate upon DBC. Most of us here speak authoritatively - with varying degrees of mockery in our voice - but it all has to be taken with a smile and a sip of Tequila. Unless Georger really pisses me off and I have to give him a dose of his own medicine. Remember, gossip rules here and everywhere else, and successful writers never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

5. A recommended list of Cooper books has been mentioned at various places in the Forum and elsewhere, but it might be useful to post some thoughts, again:

          - the top books on Cooper are written by: Geoffrey Gray, Richard Tosaw, Ralph Himmelsbach, and Russ Calame. I also consider my book, DB Cooper and the FBI to be a worthy addition to the literature. Also, lots of interviews with Norjak principals are posted at my online news magazine, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, which is free to access. Other sites also have value, such as Geoffrey's huntfordbcooper.com, and Marty Andrade's blog on Cooper.

6. Lastly, I have found that discussions about suspects are more appropriately understood to be arguments on whom we would like DB Cooper to be. I am one of those who feels that when we finally learn who DB Cooper is, we'll say, "Who the hell is that?"

"Who the hell is that?"  Bruce, I think you have it right on that point.  If Cooper's identity ever becomes known, it will probably be a name that no one on this thread has heard before.

Hopefully the finger prints and dna will finally lead somewhere. Here's the dna of an electron... well almost. (Bruce seems so fascinated with them!) Show us one of Cooper's 'electrons'!  8)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 11:36:15 PM by georger »
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1042 on: May 26, 2016, 12:04:10 AM »
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The older you get seems to make the hour hand turn into the minute hand  ;D ;D ;D ;D


The older you get, the more it seems fewer of us remember clocks with hands! ;D
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1043 on: May 26, 2016, 12:16:33 AM »
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The older you get seems to make the hour hand turn into the minute hand  ;D ;D ;D ;D


The older you get, the more it seems fewer of us remember clocks with hands! ;D

LCD technology began to be exploited in the 1970s. In '71 digital clocks were rare ?

Q: Cooper:
(a) had a wrist watch with hands
(b) had no watch or timepiece
(c) had a railroad watch
(d) had a Timex digital wrist watch
(e) had a timepiece in his bomb
(f) other



 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1044 on: May 26, 2016, 12:26:18 AM »
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The older you get seems to make the hour hand turn into the minute hand  ;D ;D ;D ;D


The older you get, the more it seems fewer of us remember clocks with hands! ;D

LCD technology began to be exploited in the 1970s. In '71 digital clocks were rare ?

Q: Cooper:
(a) had a wrist watch with hands
(b) had no watch or timepiece
(c) had a railroad watch
(d) had a Timex digital wrist watch
(e) had a timepiece in his bomb
(f) other

The correct answer is:  (f) other.  According to Ckret's posts, none of the people who saw him noticed a wrist watch.  And neither Tina or Flo reported anything like a timepiece with the bomb when he was holding a couple of wires and threatening to touch them to blow things up.

In the early 1970s, digital clocks and timers were coming into use quite rapidly in aviation, but normally were installed on the cockpit instrument panel.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 12:30:48 AM by Robert99 »
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1045 on: May 26, 2016, 12:32:00 AM »
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Thanks for the welcomes.  A little bit of background on me, I am a CPA and have been focusing on taxes in recent years but in the past have been involved in forensic auditing and fraud examinations.  I love to dig and do research, but finding the time is always a challenge.  I hope I can add a fresh point of view to the Cooper case.

Welcome again.  Do you have any experience in aviation related matters or know anyone who does?
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1046 on: May 26, 2016, 12:46:57 AM »
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The older you get seems to make the hour hand turn into the minute hand  ;D ;D ;D ;D


The older you get, the more it seems fewer of us remember clocks with hands! ;D

LCD technology began to be exploited in the 1970s. In '71 digital clocks were rare ?

Q: Cooper:
(a) had a wrist watch with hands
(b) had no watch or timepiece
(c) had a railroad watch
(d) had a Timex digital wrist watch
(e) had a timepiece in his bomb
(f) other
(g) Citizen's X8 Titanium Chronometer
This little cutie was milled from 99.6% pure titanium.  Legend has it the battery which powered these didn't have a very long life and had to be changed regularly.  Traveling businessmen would often change them in their hotel rooms and put the watch's face on something soft, like a tie, so the wouldn't scratch it.  For more info, click on the link below:
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"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1047 on: May 26, 2016, 12:58:06 AM »
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The older you get seems to make the hour hand turn into the minute hand  ;D ;D ;D ;D


The older you get, the more it seems fewer of us remember clocks with hands! ;D

LCD technology began to be exploited in the 1970s. In '71 digital clocks were rare ?

Q: Cooper:
(a) had a wrist watch with hands
(b) had no watch or timepiece
(c) had a railroad watch
(d) had a Timex digital wrist watch
(e) had a timepiece in his bomb
(f) other
(g) Citizen's X8 Titanium Chronometer
This little cutie was milled from 99.6% pure titanium.  Legend has it the battery which powered these didn't have a very long life and had to be changed regularly.  Traveling businessmen would often change them in their hotel rooms and put the watch's face on something soft, like a tie, so the wouldn't scratch it.  For more info, click on the link below:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The X8 has hands and is not digital.  It is my understanding that chronometers are required to have hands, and I have never seen one that was digital.

 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1048 on: May 26, 2016, 01:30:12 AM »
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The older you get seems to make the hour hand turn into the minute hand  ;D ;D ;D ;D


The older you get, the more it seems fewer of us remember clocks with hands! ;D

LCD technology began to be exploited in the 1970s. In '71 digital clocks were rare ?

Q: Cooper:
(a) had a wrist watch with hands
(b) had no watch or timepiece
(c) had a railroad watch
(d) had a Timex digital wrist watch
(e) had a timepiece in his bomb
(f) other
(g) Citizen's X8 Titanium Chronometer
This little cutie was milled from 99.6% pure titanium.  Legend has it the battery which powered these didn't have a very long life and had to be changed regularly.  Traveling businessmen would often change them in their hotel rooms and put the watch's face on something soft, like a tie, so the wouldn't scratch it.  For more info, click on the link below:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Maybe Cooper worked in a plant where these were made? "The X8 Chronometer in a titanium case was produced only in 1970 and less than 2000 were produced, or sold. "
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 01:34:14 AM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1049 on: May 26, 2016, 02:14:57 AM »
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The older you get seems to make the hour hand turn into the minute hand  ;D ;D ;D ;D


The older you get, the more it seems fewer of us remember clocks with hands! ;D

LCD technology began to be exploited in the 1970s. In '71 digital clocks were rare ?

Q: Cooper:
(a) had a wrist watch with hands
(b) had no watch or timepiece
(c) had a railroad watch
(d) had a Timex digital wrist watch
(e) had a timepiece in his bomb
(f) other
(g) Citizen's X8 Titanium Chronometer
This little cutie was milled from 99.6% pure titanium.  Legend has it the battery which powered these didn't have a very long life and had to be changed regularly.  Traveling businessmen would often change them in their hotel rooms and put the watch's face on something soft, like a tie, so the wouldn't scratch it.  For more info, click on the link below:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Maybe Cooper worked in a plant where these were made? "The X8 Chronometer in a titanium case was produced only in 1970 and less than 2000 were produced, or sold. "

If you want to extend the argument, here is how it could go.  Since the Japan Chronometer Association is the certifying agency for the X8, you can assume that the watch was manufactured in Japan.  Further, Cooper acquired the watch when he was in Asia during the Vietnam War.  But did J.C. Penney have stores in Japan where he could buy the clip-on tie?