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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1830655 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1005 on: April 29, 2016, 08:25:53 PM »
Scott MacPherson was traveling with his father, Bill, and sitting next to him. Presumably, Paul Weitzel was sitting across the aisle from them, as they were in 1st Class.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1006 on: April 30, 2016, 01:27:10 AM »
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Scott MacPherson was traveling with his father, Bill, and sitting next to him. Presumably, Paul Weitzel was sitting across the aisle from them, as they were in 1st Class.

So, there was conversation btwn the MacPherson's and other passengers. What did they say?  8)
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1007 on: April 30, 2016, 02:48:48 AM »
Scott didn't say more than what I've written here. What are you getting at, G?
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1008 on: April 30, 2016, 03:07:39 AM »
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Scott didn't say more than what I've written here. What are you getting at, G?

You said Scott said: ""We knew then (that we had been hijacked) that was why we had been circling Seattle for hours."
Who is the "we"? It assumes some discussion between Scott and somebody, maybe just his Dad? Did Scott and his Dad talked to their neighbors? (I guess not!) Never mind.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1009 on: April 30, 2016, 03:39:33 AM »
I think it is reasonable to assume that Scott and his father talked among themselves and with Paul Weitzel. Maybe others in the area of 1st Class, since Floyd Kloepfer was there, too. Maybe his wife. Remember, the Seattle Times says "Mrs. Kloepfer" was on board, and the NWO manifest says "Mr. Kloepfer."
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1010 on: April 30, 2016, 08:02:36 PM »
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Passenger Update

The NWO manifest is in error. Not three MacPhersons on board Flight 305, only two. The third passenger was an employee of MacPherson Real Estate company, a fellow named Paul Weitzel, who must be the "Mr. Weitzl" listed in the manifest. So the passenger list is short one individual. Another math problem.

I just got this from Scott MacPherson, who is both the "son," "S.," and the "Scott" MacPherson listed on the manifest and in the Seattle Times. Scott was 24 at the time of the hijacking. He doesn't remember exactly where he was sitting, but stated that it was "up near the front."

Scott is a pleasant fellow, but not too talky. He was only able to discuss the hijacking in general terms, but he was quite clear and animated about seeing the "Seattle First" money bags come aboard.

"It was pretty obvious what was going on when we saw the Seattle First bags," he told me. He described them as canvas bags. "We knew then that was why we had been circling Seattle for hours."

Scott also said that a couple of men entered the plane when the forward door opened, and he remembers two money bags and at least two men bringing them into the plane. His memory of the incident is that there was an exchange on board Flight 305, and that Tina did not leave the aircraft and re-enter with the money.

Scott does not know who or what these men were, whether they were FBI, FAA, or something else, or some combination.

Scott did not get a good look at the hijacker, who was sitting "far in the back."

Scott was not interviewed by the FBI in the terminal, but his father, Bill MacPherson, encountered a TV news reporter that he knew and gave him an interview.

"He was a pretty out-going kind of guy," Scott said. "He was pretty, um, gregarious, and enjoyed the attention."

Bill MacPherson died in 1988, Scott told me. Weitzel is still alive, but Scott hasn't had any contact with him in at least 25 years.

Scott has not talked with any other passengers, either during the debriefing period or in the years following the hijacking. He has not spoken to Larry Finegold.

Scott also does not remember the passengers moving up in the plane or changing seats at any time. However, he does remember clearly that the flight attendants "had their hands full" dealing with a drunk passenger sitting a few rows behind Scott. "That's when they cut-off the alcohol service. They really had a hard time settling him down."

Scott does not remember if the drunk passenger was in uniform, or sitting next to a military figure, as reported by the Simmons in GG's book.

Scott also said that a couple of men entered the plane when the forward door opened, and he remembers two money bags and at least two men bringing them into the plane. His memory of the incident is that there was an exchange on board Flight 305, and that Tina did not leave the aircraft and re-enter with the money.

So did she leave the plane to get the chutes, or were they brought on for her too, by somebody? (in contradiction of previous versions?) 

What was the reaction of passengers when "parachutes" were dragged down the aisle to the back?

Damned good thing Cooper didn't demand a buffalo, bag of rattlesnakes, and an SEM! Or a bass drum, marching band, and the Seattle Symphony Orchestra! Or Walter Chronkite!  :) 

Weird you want; weird you get. Hijackings are weird. Documentation of hijackings is weird. People who get caught up in hijackings are weird. People who write books about hijackings are weird. People who claim to know who the hijacker was are weird (and publicity hounds dealing with deep seated emotional problems and feelings of inferiority, some of whom probably deserve to be on a Homeland Security Watch List for the safety of the rest of society!) People who research hijackings with SEMs are weird. The list is endless!

I think I will bail out and go over to Weird Burger and get a Weird Burger.
 ;)

The only one normal around here is Me!  8)
 
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 08:08:16 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1011 on: April 30, 2016, 08:11:23 PM »
 8)
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1012 on: April 30, 2016, 08:23:41 PM »
Weird, happy, and well-fed. All is well in Cooper World.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 08:24:09 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1013 on: April 30, 2016, 08:55:41 PM »
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What was the reaction of passengers when "parachutes" were dragged down the aisle to the back?


So far, no passenger has told me that they saw a parachute come on board. Only money, and most say one bag. Scott MacPherson was the first to claim multiple bags.

So, the sequence of events seems to be:

1. Land at Sea-Tac.
2. Door opens at forward hatch, and after some kind of exchange somewhere (inside or out) eventually Tina comes down the aisle with a Seafirst money bag, and the passengers know the scoop.
3. Coop goes to the lav as the passengers stand, then leave. It is unclear if they are allowed to retrieve their carry-ons from the overhead bins. GG says yes.
4. Passengers get on board a bus for the short ride to the terminal. Debrief and roll-call begins.
5. Once in the terminal, varying degrees of interview/interrogation/processing proceed. Some passengers leave, some linger. Five apparently give a more nuanced, detailed account of what their saw/heard/did, ie: Bill Mitchell and Robert Gregory are the two who give the most detail, joined by Labissioniere, House, and Spreckel, but what  these latter three truly said is not known publicly. House described the bag that the skyjacker had: 12x12x4, tannish with pink overtones, as per GG.
6. Gregory's account is still unclear. FBI docs say he was sitting in 18C, but the Seattle Times says that he told their reporter he was sitting forward and only saw the hijacker when he stood to deplane. Mitchell's account is that he was sprawled over 18-A, B, and C.
7. Gregory's description is the biggest outlier: 5'-8", 35-38 years, russet jacket with wide lapels, greasy black hair, looks Mexican or Native American.
8. Mitchell's account is the next outlier: "geeky," bad hair," "turkey gobble," "old guy." Contrasts with Tina and Flo's description of a "gentleman."
9. Gregory's and Mitchell's account are combined by GG, who now describes DBC as a "schlub."
10. Once the passengers deplane, Flo and Alice leave as well, and then Tina gets the chutes. DBC decides to keep Tina on board.
11. Over the next two hours, the refueling is accomplished, DBC cuts cords, weaves a satchel, dons a chute, discusses flight parameters with cockpit. approximately 5:45pm-7:40pm.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 09:02:58 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1014 on: April 30, 2016, 09:12:06 PM »
Quote
So far, no passenger has told me that they saw a parachute come on board. Only money, and most say one bag. Scott MacPherson was the first to claim multiple bags.


Possibly his memory is combining the two separate events...
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1015 on: April 30, 2016, 11:19:11 PM »
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8)

funny ...
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1016 on: April 30, 2016, 11:21:08 PM »
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What was the reaction of passengers when "parachutes" were dragged down the aisle to the back?


So far, no passenger has told me that they saw a parachute come on board. Only money, and most say one bag. Scott MacPherson was the first to claim multiple bags.

So, the sequence of events seems to be:

1. Land at Sea-Tac.
2. Door opens at forward hatch, and after some kind of exchange somewhere (inside or out) eventually Tina comes down the aisle with a Seafirst money bag, and the passengers know the scoop.
3. Coop goes to the lav as the passengers stand, then leave. It is unclear if they are allowed to retrieve their carry-ons from the overhead bins. GG says yes.
4. Passengers get on board a bus for the short ride to the terminal. Debrief and roll-call begins.
5. Once in the terminal, varying degrees of interview/interrogation/processing proceed. Some passengers leave, some linger. Five apparently give a more nuanced, detailed account of what their saw/heard/did, ie: Bill Mitchell and Robert Gregory are the two who give the most detail, joined by Labissioniere, House, and Spreckel, but what  these latter three truly said is not known publicly. House described the bag that the skyjacker had: 12x12x4, tannish with pink overtones, as per GG.
6. Gregory's account is still unclear. FBI docs say he was sitting in 18C, but the Seattle Times says that he told their reporter he was sitting forward and only saw the hijacker when he stood to deplane. Mitchell's account is that he was sprawled over 18-A, B, and C.
7. Gregory's description is the biggest outlier: 5'-8", 35-38 years, russet jacket with wide lapels, greasy black hair, looks Mexican or Native American.
8. Mitchell's account is the next outlier: "geeky," bad hair," "turkey gobble," "old guy." Contrasts with Tina and Flo's description of a "gentleman."
9. Gregory's and Mitchell's account are combined by GG, who now describes DBC as a "schlub."
10. Once the passengers deplane, Flo and Alice leave as well, and then Tina gets the chutes. DBC decides to keep Tina on board.
11. Over the next two hours, the refueling is accomplished, DBC cuts cords, weaves a satchel, dons a chute, discusses flight parameters with cockpit. approximately 5:45pm-7:40pm.

again nice work Bruce. You are an enigma.  :)
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1017 on: May 01, 2016, 12:40:09 AM »
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People who research hijackings with SEMs are weird.

The only one normal around here is Me!  8)

What is an SEM?
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1018 on: May 01, 2016, 02:07:49 AM »
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People who research hijackings with SEMs are weird.

The only one normal around here is Me!  8)

What is an SEM?

Scanning Electron Microscope  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The device Tom used for particle photography and spectral (elemental) analysis.

as distinct from a Mass Spectrometer (MS) (a MESS Sorter  :) )  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 02:18:28 AM by georger »
 

Offline Mack

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1019 on: May 24, 2016, 08:35:13 AM »
Hello, this is my first post but I'm longtime browser.  I've enjoyed reading the discussions here and appreciate the effort that has been put into this website.

All the conflicting claims and supposed evidence in the DBC case is really frustrating.  Sluggo's website has a nice section on the facts and myths of the DBC case. Unfortunately it has not been updated since 2010.  Has any new evidence been released since then?  It would be really helpful to have all the physical evidence and witness statements in one place with footnotes as to their source.  It could be presented in a hierarchy based on how authoritative it is.  For example level 1 is physical evidence, level 2 is eyewitness testimony, level 3 is testimony from individuals who viewed the FBI files, etc.  I would start it myself but currently don't have the time or knowledge required. 

One thing that has been irking me lately is this: According to Sluggo's website, DBC asked for "$200,000 in cash" and not negotiable American currency as reported on many websites and books.  Until the facts are agreed on discussing suspects is an exercise in frustration.

Thanks for the vent. Still on my second cup of coffee this morning.