Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 1924038 times)

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1545 on: May 08, 2016, 11:33:02 PM »
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Meaning?

Meaning that I hit the wrong key very early in typing the post.  See the modified version of the post.



Big difference  ;D ;D

My point was showing the error's in the map. at this point I'm not trying to find any alternate route. it's very possible, but currently only looking at the known flight path....

At this point in time, no one can prove that there is a "known flight path".  The route on the FBI map is the "believed flight path", and you used the same term just a few posts previously.

If you want to make it a point of beliefs, then we subscribe to different belief systems. :)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 11:35:15 PM by Robert99 »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1546 on: May 08, 2016, 11:36:38 PM »
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The only real time conflicts I'm having is in the jump zone area. the time does not match the map.

The path from Seattle to the Toledo (malay intersection)`is very similar each time I fly this leg of the flight. the same goes from the Malay intersection to Merwin Lake, or crossing the Lewis river, I get about the same times as the map shows.

The problem starts just after Battleground. I start losing time between Battleground, and crossing the Columbia, it doesn't match the map. it takes over 8 minutes to reach the Columbia. it's a wild ride through this area with a jet....

Since we have no radar data, or cockpit recordings we have to go by what they are stating, even though they state "the believed flight path" then you have the conflicts from the pilots....it goes on and on... :))




I put a number of questions to Anderson about position (and times). He basically dodged the whole thing except to say he agreed with Rataczak that the when the bump occurred they 'could see the suburbs of Vancouver ahead' and he specifically said "I agree with what Rataczak said". That ddn't leave any wiggle room. I had the distinct impression he wasn't going to answer any further position-time related questions. 
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1547 on: May 09, 2016, 12:33:42 AM »
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Meaning?

Meaning that I hit the wrong key very early in typing the post.  See the modified version of the post.



Big difference  ;D ;D

My point was showing the error's in the map. at this point I'm not trying to find any alternate route. it's very possible, but currently only looking at the known flight path....

Either the money arrived at Tina Bar or some drainage basin which feeds Tina Bar, through some circumstance involving the flight path, or, it arrived via Cooper or somebody else on foot carrying the money after Cooper had bailed. Those are the choices as I see it. 

R99 believes the money and the flight path are directly connected. R99 also believes the FBI flight path is not defensible on the data currently available. BTW, last week Thomas was still holding to the plane having passed through the Washougal drainage area.   
 

Offline 377

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1548 on: May 09, 2016, 12:51:19 PM »
"The only real time conflicts I'm having is in the jump zone area. the time does not match the map.
"

We need Georger to investigate time dilation and/or expansion. There may be some Lorentzian effects in the Cooper Vortex.

There was no LZ, just a TZ (Twilight Zone). 

And why has Rod Serling been ruled out? He was a paratrooper and served in WW2 combat winning a Bronze Star.

The TZ episode Nightmare at 20,000 Feet may have given him inspiration.

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377
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 01:34:07 PM by 377 »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1549 on: May 09, 2016, 01:53:31 PM »
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"The only real time conflicts I'm having is in the jump zone area. the time does not match the map.
"

We need Georger to investigate time dilation and/or expansion. There may be some Lorentzian effects in the Cooper Vortex.

There was no LZ, just a TZ (Twilight Zone). 

And why has Rod Serling been ruled out? He was a paratrooper and served in WW2 combat winning a Bronze Star.

The TZ episode Nightmare at 20,000 Feet may have given him inspiration.

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377

I am fairly confident of one thing -

If Palmer had not been involved, the FBI would have proclaimed: 'the money came up with the dredging in 1974, based on the observation of evidence (we) found at Tina Bar.' The FBI had already decided it was going to promote the Washougal washdown theory. Then something happened between 1980 and the next iteration, whenever that was. The FBI decided to use the original NWA Search Zone map and the V23 flight path map came into being. That clouded the whole issue of the Tina Bar money and what happened to Mr. Cooper, forever. Inquiring entities in 3031A.I. will use entanglement to go back and view exactly what did happen. The human species will be long gone, but, the AI species will close the book on the Cooper case uber alles, while blaming cigarettes for the whole thing!
 :))   

 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 01:56:08 PM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1550 on: May 09, 2016, 02:18:55 PM »
..."while blaming cigarettes for the whole thing!"

Deep Learning and Big Data will conclude that causal factors were Bourbon and cigarettes. New side effects labelling on those products will be required. ;)

377



 

Offline 377

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1551 on: May 09, 2016, 02:23:08 PM »
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Number 2 right behind Loch Ness Monster.

377
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1552 on: May 09, 2016, 02:43:14 PM »
Summation of Current Flight Path Understandings:

Would it be fair to say that there is growing confidence here that the Flight Path was further west than generally believed and much closer to Tina Bar? Additionally, Cooper jumped further south than originally believed and closer to T- Bar than Ariel?

If so, do folks believe that Scott's comments at Himms' retirement party that 305 was flying over Woodland - as relayed by Calame and Rhodes - are more accurate than Rataczak's alleged comments to Himms that 305 was over the Washougal?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1553 on: May 09, 2016, 02:46:11 PM »
717?

MSN is reporting this morning that a cowling blew off a Delta 717 over my former home of Nashville, Tennessee, and made a safe emergency landing. I've never heard of a 717, but now Wiki has set me straight.

But a cowling?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 02:46:44 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1554 on: May 09, 2016, 03:54:13 PM »
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Summation of Current Flight Path Understandings:

Would it be fair to say that there is growing confidence here that the Flight Path was further west than generally believed and much closer to Tina Bar? Additionally, Cooper jumped further south than originally believed and closer to T- Bar than Ariel?

If so, do folks believe that Scott's comments at Himms' retirement party that 305 was flying over Woodland - as relayed by Calame and Rhodes - are more accurate than Rataczak's alleged comments to Himms that 305 was over the Washougal?

The issue and the debate, are bullshit! Either there are radar tapes, or there aren't! It was never a debatable issue, if there are radar tapes that have any degree of accuracy! The official document reads:

"The attached plot indicates the envelope of possible landing points of the high jacker. It is based on the following:
_ Aircraft position from USAF radar data from McChord AFB furnished by Captain (redacted).
_ Probable jump time (0411 GMT) from an analysis of the recorded communication from the flight relative to cabin pressure fluctuation (ie. the Oscillations & Bump). Flight tests conducted on January 6 confirmed that the pressure fluctuation almost certainly occurred at the time the HJ left the airplane.
_Wind information from 10,000 feet MSL to the ground as determined by NWA Meteorology Chief (name redacted). 
_Human body trajectories from data furnished by the Boeing Company (free-fall) and NWA pilot (name redacted) (parachute open condition), who is an expert parachutist.
_Time correlation from the above USAF radar information and from the NWA communications network tape recording.
_Airplane airspeed and altitude from the airplane’s flight recorder.
(Name of Official redacted) Northwest Airlines. January 9, 1972

If the above is true and accurate it doesn't matter what Scott or Rataczack said at a later time!

Scott's account is the best fit with the data that is available. Rataczak's account is a wild departure with any known facts! The Washougal Theory only came into play because of a hydrologist's and geologist's speculation trying to account for the money find in the Columbia basin when the assumed flight path and drop zone the FBI provided failed to offer any connection to money being found at Tina Bar. Rataczak has been all over the map in his supposed testimony to various people through the years. Scott's comment was concise and never changed.

If Scott's comment is true then Cooper survived with the money in tact and walked to the Vancouver-Portland area where he somehow lost part part of the money. If Scott's testimony is not true, then flight 305 was further south when Cooper bailed... just as the NWA Search map allows for!

 

   

   
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 04:33:16 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1555 on: May 10, 2016, 02:54:40 PM »
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Summation of Current Flight Path Understandings:

Would it be fair to say that there is growing confidence here that the Flight Path was further west than generally believed and much closer to Tina Bar? Additionally, Cooper jumped further south than originally believed and closer to T- Bar than Ariel?

If so, do folks believe that Scott's comments at Himms' retirement party that 305 was flying over Woodland - as relayed by Calame and Rhodes - are more accurate than Rataczak's alleged comments to Himms that 305 was over the Washougal?

Bruce, one again, I think you are looking for a consensus which doesn't exist! So lets back up and look at this again. Central fact: No matter how you parse the flight path, no matter which flight path theory you chose, Cooper probably bailed in the 2011 - 2013 period somewhere north of Vancouver. No body was found. The search in '72 along the NWA Search Map line A'-B' in the Ariel - Lake Merwin area found nothing. No body and no Cooper. And, so far as I know, there was no massive search for Cooper in the Vancouver-Portland area, for a number of reasons including a lack of manpower to conduct such a search, outside the prime landing zone area, where experts advised law enforcement Cooper had bailed ... and DIED! Law enforcement was looking for Cooper where all of the experts told them to look!  ;)

Then something unexpected happens in 1980. Cooper money is found at Tina Bar. There is a rush to bring in more experts. The Washougal Theory is born. An intense brief excavation is launched at Tina's Bar. Nothing of a defining nature is found! Once again no major effort to canvas Vancouver and Portland occurs, except perhaps to renew and review old area hospital DOA reports - and once again nothing comes of that.

Did anyone bother to look at a map? If they had they might have realised that 2011-2013 puts Cooper where? It puts Cooper right in the effective operating zone of Vancouver-Portland and Tina's Bar. If Cooper survived the jump at 2011-2013 where would he go? All the way back to Seattle, or south with Vancouver-Portland close by?

And money is found where - just west of Vancouver, at a semi-isolated public fishing spot ! Do I dare say: "Duuuuuuh"?  :)) To my eyes, the money was found right at the southern edge of the Effective Operating zone, just south of where all the experts say Cooper bailed ... whether you accept the NWA/FBI maps or a slightly western version of those maps as suggested by Robert99.

The eastern Washougal theory was never anything more than a guess and the experts that advised the FBI said that clearly. It was Rataczak and Himmelsbach who promoted the Washougal wash down theory and who knows why!

The fact is, the Tina Bar money was found in the effective operating zone of a Cooper who survived a jump in the 2011-2014 period just north of Vancouver (at or south of) Woodland-Ariel, or closer to Vancouver perhaps in the Tina Bar area itself as Robert99 thinks may have happened.

The money and the jump do fit together! See the attached.  The money and the jump are in the same effective operating zone. There is Sluggo's "missing link".  8)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 05:49:09 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1556 on: May 11, 2016, 05:12:56 PM »
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Summation of Current Flight Path Understandings:

Would it be fair to say that there is growing confidence here that the Flight Path was further west than generally believed and much closer to Tina Bar? Additionally, Cooper jumped further south than originally believed and closer to T- Bar than Ariel?

If so, do folks believe that Scott's comments at Himms' retirement party that 305 was flying over Woodland - as relayed by Calame and Rhodes - are more accurate than Rataczak's alleged comments to Himms that 305 was over the Washougal?

Scott's comments at Himms' retirement party that 305 was flying over Woodland ???

Hmmm. That is shown on the NWA search map! Nope. Woodland is clear west of the alleged fp and drop point.

'Was in the suburbs of Vancouver and could see the lights of someplace coming up!" (Carr/Rataczak.)

Hmmm. Its 20 miles to Vancouver! How can you be north of La Center and also be in the suburbs of Vancouver? Nope!

Is there a map that shows or documents all of these people;s comments about where in hell they were ... ?

Hmmm. I sure dont see one. Hey Bruce! Give us a map!  So much for "he said she said" ...  8)

I mean, just think about this. We are dealing will all of the inherent inaccuracies in the best map engineers and avionics people could come up with at the time (1971) and now we throw "he said she said" into the mix? When do the clowns and the politicians arrive to mix in their best information?   Somebody throw in Jermaine Tricolor's information! Or that of the Minnesota hermit Benny Ambrose too!
 :))
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 05:23:42 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1557 on: May 11, 2016, 08:33:07 PM »
                                                            THE ARIEL CONFLICT

It's pretty obvious Bobby doesn't have much of a "public" unfortunately, Bryan will suffer from this, possibly having to get a bank loan, or some other means (other than Adventure self promotions)

Crowdfunding site #1   $85.00
Crowdfunding site #2     $0.00

It appears he's still on a hatred rant...people don't want to read that crap while trying to raise money Bobby...really!

Perhaps, you should close the funding sites to the public for a few days as you do the rest of your cluster sites...

« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 09:07:30 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1558 on: May 11, 2016, 08:39:22 PM »
The main problems I see with the flight path is the lack of agreement with the crew, and the lack of actual evidence supporting the "known flight path"

It doesn't make sense that they flew right over populated area's with the possibility of a bomb on board?

Don't forget, Jerry has the path further east.... :-\

I wish they would turn the case over to the Marshals office so they can dig up all the stuff they say they don't have  C:-)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 09:05:57 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #1559 on: May 11, 2016, 11:07:47 PM »
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'Was in the suburbs of Vancouver and could see the lights of someplace coming up!" (Carr/Rataczak.)
Here is an aerial view of the night lights of Washington State.  Though it was taken in 2015, it may show us what the pilots may, or may not have, seen. 
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford